Now, this is something that bugs me, I see many posts on this, and other forums bleating on that "x isn't realistic, or y should'nt be in our "sim" because it's not realistic", I personally think that people need to get a grip on what is realistic and what isn't.

Don't get me wrong, I would like LFS to be the most realistic simulator there is (and in many respects it is), but while we have such a kick in the crotch to realism as the current starting system is, rev engine, green light goes off, and you go automatically illepall, then IMO many of the posts regarding realism are probably not worth bothering with.

The way we conduct starts in LFS is REALLY beginning to annoy me, starts are one of the make/break parts of racing, a good or bad start can make or break a race for many drivers, but as it is there is zero skill involved in starting a race and personally it is climbing my list of realistic wants, as the starting system is as arcade as it can get, heck it takes more skill to get a good start in Flatout 2 .

So, in summary, yes LFS is reasonably realistic, but please some people get off your high horses and realise that LFS is still far from being as realistic as it can be.

Dan,

Aero damage, brake fade, clutch pack diffs with preload, active diffs, torsen diff, engine damage, etc.
LFS isn't realistic at all.
Some people should keep that in mind.

Vain

Quote from Vain :

Aero damage, brake fade, clutch pack diffs with preload, active diffs, engine damage.
LFS isn't realistic at all.

Vain

Which is exactly my point, all I see is posts from people say this little thing isnt realistic, and that isn't, but when it boils down to it, the whole thing ain't realistic at all.



At least you "get it" Vain

Dan,

Very true, but what's going on so you post this?

Quote from danowat :

Which is exactly my point, all I see is posts from people say this little thing isnt realistic, and that isn't, but when it boils down to it, the whole thing ain't realistic at all.



At least you "get it" Vain

Dan,

Not at all? I'd say that's a slight overstatement.

I do know what you mean, though. I think people are always so concerned about the suggestions of various "unrealistic" things being added to LFS because when that happens it is something of a step backwards, and we're actually further from "realism" than we were before.

Quote from Blackout :

Very true, but what's going on so you post this?

Just the continual berating of posts by a certain sect of LFS users.

It's just the "this isn't realistic and it should'nt be in LFS" type of posts that gets my goat, if LFS was in any way realistic then fine, but it ain't, it's the best we have got, and I enjoy it immensly, but realistic?, not by a long chalk.

Don't get me wrong, I like LFS as much as the next man, but we just need some clarity here, I think there are too many blinkered people in these forums.

@ sinbad, I could list unrealistic things out of the ying-yang.

Dan,

I would also like to take this opportunity to point out that the Earth is infact not perfectly spherical, but close enough for approximations, and that chocolate is not a good material to make a fireguard.

Just to hammer my point home:
If LFS was truely realistic, I'd actually feel like I was in an uncomfy racing vehicle, with the biting cold coming into the crack through my helmet, etc. instead of sitting in my room staring at computer screens.

Most of the forum population are intelligent enough to understand that, but I'm really, really glad you felt like telling us, just incase.

If you really have that much of a problem with people bleating on, just ignore it.

Yes, there are many unrealistic, and some downright arcadey things in LFS.

And?

Why should that fact forbid any protesting against things that would add even more to the list of unrealistic stuff?

Why?, because there are fundamental flaws, like the starting system, that IMO let the whole realism of the sim down.

And it's just the general high horse attitude of a certain sect of LFS users that I find annoying.

Dan,

Quote from danowat :

@ sinbad, I could list unrealistic things out of the ying-yang.

Me too, Dan. But to suggest there is nothing realistic about the tyres, brakes, steering and suspension or general handling sensation and vehicle behaviour seems a bit much (to me).

Starts in LFS are perfectly realisitic, what isn't is that they are part automated, rather than giving the driver full control.

Tyres?, somewhat realistic, still a way to go before they are realistic, Brakes?, nope, not by a long shot, get some heat simulation then maybe we are on the right track, steering?, I have my doubts, there are steering movements that arent being picked up by the FF system, which I believe to tightly tied to the physics.

Dan,

Quote from danowat :

Why?, because there are fundamental flaws, like the starting system, that IMO let the whole realism of the sim down.

Ah.....okay.....so we shouldn't aim for more realism as long as there are unrealistic features, or parts within the sim?

No offense, but illepall

CU, Sebastian

Fundamentals, lets get the fundamentals right before we crib about these little unrealistic things.

Dan,

Quote from danowat :

Tyres?, somewhat realistic, still a way to go before they are realistic, Brakes?, nope, not by a long shot, get some heat simulation then maybe we are on the right track, steering?, I have my doubts, there are steering movements that arent being picked up by the FF system, which I believe to tightly tied to the physics.

Dan,

There is obviously a brake at each wheel so how can that be totally unrealistic? TBH I think you're on a bit of a high-horse yourself atm.

Quote from danowat :

Why?, because there are fundamental flaws, like the starting system, that IMO let the whole realism of the sim down.

Look, I completely agree that the starting system is kind of an immersion killer, hence my steady rambling about the oversimplified race management in LFS.

But by your logic, if there is ANY unrealistic thing in a sim, that sim must forever allow the addition of further unrealistic things. Yes, race starts suck. But sucking race starts don't make a ghostcar or whatever any more qualified for addition than before.

Quote :

Fundamentals, lets get the fundamentals right before we crib about these little unrealistic things.

Ah....okay.....now you are making more sense

But I am pretty sure that the Devs are working on these fundamentals.....don't you?

.....and the addition of even more 'little unrealistic things' would still make the sim more unrealistic

Would the use of "striving to be realistic simulator" instead of just "realistic simulator" help any? The ultimate goal of LFS is to be as realistic as possible while maintaining playability. It is already taking steps to reach that goal...

Quote from DasBoeseC :

Ah....okay.....now you are making more sense

But I am pretty sure that the Devs are working on these fundamentals.....don't you?

I sure hope so.

Look it's just my opinion, nothing more, nothing less, I know what I want to say, but not really how I want to say it, bloody forums, so frustrating, my original point is getting somewhat diluted, but I know what I mean

Dan,

I can't wait for S3, hopefully most of our improvement ideas
will be implimented by the devs bringing as close to reality as possible.

At the end of the day it seems some people around here are just getting frustrated.As you know Scawen seen this and did post an update telling us about his home etc, etc.

I wouldn't let other peoples views annoy you here Danowat, after all it's only a game....cheer up....be happy

Quote from danowat :

The way we conduct starts in LFS is REALLY beginning to annoy me, starts are one of the make/break parts of racing, a good or bad start can make or break a race for many drivers, but as it is there is zero skill involved in starting a race and personally it is climbing my list of realistic wants, as the starting system is as arcade as it can get, heck it takes more skill to get a good start in Flatout 2 .



Dan,

Quote from danowat :

It's just the "this isn't realistic and it should'nt be in LFS" type of posts that gets my goat, if LFS was in any way realistic .....



Dan,

illepall

Meh, I know what I mean even if the rest of the world doesn't

Dan,

Quote from danowat :

Meh, I know what I mean even if the rest of the world doesn't

Let me venture a guess: That the "hardcore simulation" types are fast to the gun to shoot down any feature suggestion that could be implemented and "makes sense" in a computerish/gamish/virtual environment way (like the neverending bickering over the ghostcar yes or no topic) while there are issues that should normally make them pull their hair if they are so "hardcore" as they say they are? Who knows... maybe they've already pulled out as much hair as possible about those subjects and decided it's time to let it grow back... *shrug*

I'm just happy that LFS offers ways of extracting enough data to implement the various toys that some users like - like the Car Sound Remixer or the Ghostcar mod... (although the latter has much to owe for it's existence to Kegetys' Direct3D programming prowess)

Aye, something along those lines, but I have now lost the will to live

Dan,

So your main point is that the fundamental "flaws" get fixed first. I think we all agree on that. How does shooting down minor unrealistic suggestions prevent Scawen from fixing the fundamental things? Actually, almost nothing we say here has any direct influence on Scawen's big plan anyways, so neither does our discussion help nor distract him. So we could all shut up about such things and let the suggestion threads die unanwswered. Is that better?