Is it just me or is grass too slippery? I know I have never driven a car with slicks on grass and so on but it just feels so unnatural at the moment. Its like ice skating more than anything. There's just so little grip on the grass right now.

Don't drive over 30 km/h and there is grip. And 30 km/h is already very fast for off-road in a race-car.

You don't notice how fast you're really going in LFS.

Vain

Its not the slippery that's the problem. Its the snap oversteer. Racing slicks don't work well on grass but the propensity for the cars to swap ends on the grass is very unrealistic (and very frustrating).

Snap oversteer? Where the hell do you get that? Everytime I get onto the grass, I crash sideways into the next wall, even though I didn't use any throttle (which should slow me down and let me steer back to the track if there's no power?)...
Or do you mean if you get just one tire onto the grass and spin out wildly?

the difference is grass itself is slippery, however the thing that isn't in lfs is the tyre's tendency to dig into the ground when the wheel is locked, or if it's sliding sideways

I've always felt that the grass is very good and never questioned it's quality. And propably never will.

theres one thing that does make the grass a lot more slippery than it should be
iirc dirt still gets applied across the whole width of the tyre atmso even if only the edge of you tyre touches the grass you lose a tremendous amount of grip

Perhaps if Scawen modelled grass growing, it would make itself better over time>?

What I find strange in a FWD GTR is when I have 2 wheels on the track and 2 on the grass and it's so hard to get back on the racetrack but I don't know why. The one on the grass has ~0 grip so the one on the track should pull the car back pretty easily with a little throttle control shouldn't it?

If you're accelerating at the time, any drive applied to the ground (differential permitting I guess) will be applied by the tyres with grip, and that side of the car will try to overtake the side which does not have any grip on the grass. Which I suppose, is why your car wants to turn away from the road and towards the grass. If you braked, the car would turn the opposite way.

Besides that, the grass has probably a little higher drag than the tarmac, too.

my personal feeling is that the gras in lfs is more like real ice than real gras but not that bad, it just could get a physics upgrade some day, for a more real gras,... make it more real

I see nothing wrong in the grass in LFS (assuming you're only trying to simulate a fixed surface), it does it much better than most other sims. Remember your trying to drive on grass very fast with cars that have slick tires and are low and stiff. The gravel traps though allow you to drive out too easilly (mainly due to hills and the fixed surface). I'm also not convinced about how effective they are at retarding cars. I was amazed at how effective the gravel trap at Gerrards at Mallory is now, god knows what they've done to it but in a short run off it stopped a Legends car (mainly due to it being digging in but having a low enough CofG not to roll) from an entry speed of probably over 80mph then remarkably he drove out of it having come to a halt, the first car I've seen do that in ages.

What?? In a Formula or GTR car, the gravel traps take years to get out of!

Quote from DaveWS :

What?? In a Formula or GTR car, the gravel traps take years to get out of!

Still leaves two issues:

1. You can't usually get out of them.

2. IRL road cars do not get out of gravel traps.

Quote from Takumi_Project.d :

the difference is grass itself is slippery, however the thing that isn't in lfs is the tyre's tendency to dig into the ground when the wheel is locked, or if it's sliding sideways

exactly. its not in lfs and also not on any other sim. its been requested long ago to have sinkable physics and its related to rally pack...
so who knows. it might come in the future, its been considered.
it might also not come.

I don't think there is much wrong with the grass. Real life the grass will usually bounce the car around a bit/lot more.

I'd rather have it like this than other online racing games where the grass is so grippy people use it as the race track and take shortcuts.

Keiran

Though the grass is fine, i noticed that sand trap thingie too, with LX6. I believe that the sinking physics are already on ScaViEr's todo-list, but can't even try to guess how far from the top..

But to have the "sinking physics", it would be mostly useful on non-tarmac tracks. Random grass endeavours can be cured with better driver or light modifications to the grass.phys file

(maybe the grass in LFS is wet?) :o

When leaving the track (even at high speeds) I find that the grass has enough grip for you to save the car from an accident if you are careful with your throttle and steering. Just the other day I had an "off" and was impressed with how the grass, while slippery, is not impossible to drive on. If you have your wits about you most situations can be negotiated with a return to the tarmac. I don't know for sure how realistic the LFS grassed areas are in terms of grip, but I'm very happy with them currently.

The reason gravel, mud and generally any soft surface feels unrealistic is due ti\o the fact that the ground acts like infinitely stiff springs (like thick frozen ice) even though IRL, mud and grass would readily induce tire sinking. In fact, the fastest way to stop on gravel omud is to practically lock the brakes, forcing them to dig into the round. Take it from a regular gravel traveller.

The only problem is the lack of steerability as you mash the brake pedal. That's why you "breath" the pedal to induce controlled turn in.

The lack of precise off-tarmac physics is one major reason why rallying REMAINS neglacted (practically non-existant actually) in LFS. Lack of any soft ground compliance definitely detracts from realism and wreaks havoc with suspensions as they are bashed MUCH harder than they would with RL jumps and high speed bumps.

I liked the old grass that was in some places on Fern Bay in S1. People complained that it was too hard to get out of, but I think grass should be more "rutty;" wheels should really dig in to it. ATM it's impossible to roll (flip) a car just by sliding sideways over the grass.

Actually, it's just the fact that tires don't dig in to provide traction in LFS, since the grass or gravel is infinitely stiff like tarmac. IRL 4wding, it's well known that a large diameter and moderately wide tire grips better overall than stupendously wide but small diameter tires. Factor in the fact that aggressive tread patterns literally dig into the relatively compliant gorund, the tires could practically "pedal" their way through soft ground. The optimal width for any given tire diameter is entirely dependent on the terrain stiffness. For VERY soft mud or sand, wider is always better, since low ground pressure is crucial to avoid excessive sinking. However, your typical beach sand is best done with moderately wide tires at realtively low (~15psi) pressures.

On the other hand, snow requires relatively narrow tires to provide enough pressure for the sipes to dig in. That's why WRC cars use narrow siped tires on the Scandinavian snow stages.

To sum it all up, it's basically a tradeoff between the tire's propensity to dig in for traction with the need to avoid excessive sinking to achieve the optimum tire package. The problem isn't of LFS's tire physics being fundamentally wrong, it's just the lacks of the effects of a compliant ground surfaces on tire grip.

Quote from Gunn :

When leaving the track (even at high speeds) I find that the grass has enough grip for you to save the car from an accident if you are careful with your throttle and steering. Just the other day I had an "off" and was impressed with how the grass, while slippery, is not impossible to drive on. If you have your wits about you most situations can be negotiated with a return to the tarmac. I don't know for sure how realistic the LFS grassed areas are in terms of grip, but I'm very happy with them currently.

http://www.sendspace.com/file/9xf965 yeah i've never found the grass to be to slippery... i think maybe the grass isnt bumpy enough.

in f1 and the more faster saloon and openwheel racers... the grass sometimes seems very violent and bumpy. other times it is super smooth.