Quote :

This video already exists.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JlgrZkopgCQ
But it would be good to have a new one with the graphics update.Smile

Yeah exactly!

And if the LFS car is closely matched to the real world Caterham, it would be an interesting comparison, especially if the lighting conditions are similar etc and using VR.

It's selling the sim and makes for some cool helmet cam shots in the real world footage

It would really push LFS to the forefront again and also make people realise that the sim is still relevant

I think a slight rebranding would really help, maybe a tweak of the logo, a tweak to the name and doing promotional videos.

This would require time and effort that would be taken away from the sim or bringing more people in but it would benefit Scavier as a whole.

Now that Rockingham getting some publicity again thanks to Cinch, maybe look at a promotion with them i.e. Side by side comparison drives with a caterham and one of the LFS equivalents.

If it's done with a dev version of the sim, showing off the lighting and all the new logo ident updates, it would be a free bit of advertising and promotes LFS to a market that may not have known it existed or had forgotten about it.

Very nice start, any chance of an ST170 version too?

Eagerly awaiting progress on this as I love my Focus Mk1s!

Looking ace M3thanol, you have beaten me to it! I've only done basic blocking out though, yours looks spot on. I might have to move on to the mk5b/6 RS2000 F2 Maxi kit cars

Are you thinking of doing a version that is faithful to the original Escort Mexicos? These were great rally cars back in the 60's and would be a good laugh on the rallycross stages

A way of making sure that modders are not ripping other games' meshes to put in to LFS is that they need to add a WIP thread showing progression of the model. That way it proves that it is not from another title.

Now to try and break this idea, someone could have posted the images and uploaded the finished mesh that was intended for another sim, and the ripper just downloads all the progress images and uploads the finished model for LFS.

But I think that for the most part, there will be people who play several different sims or part of a larger modding community that would flag the ripped work.

I think that what could also happen in terms of modded cars appearing online is that the host server does a check of each guest's installed cars and if the files match the filesize of it's own version, allow the guest to join, and if there is no instance of the car(s), then the Host sends them through before the guest can enter.

I know that I'm over simplifying things that this would take a fair bit of work, but at least everyone is working to a level playing field and solves some of the issues raised in this thread.

Really hope that this will go ahead but at the same time, if it causes new content to be delayed from the devs by a large extent then I'm willing to wait

The thing about adding mod support is that you need a stable code base, create tools that are relatively user friendly and bug test to make sure that by unlocking elements of the code base to the user, it doesn't make the application hackable/crackable.

All this takes time and it is sounding like the devs have their hands full implementing core features i.e. lighting effects, tyre physics and so forth.

Plus imagine creating a track, getting it looking nice, and then something fundemental changes that makes it unusable or visually wrong i.e. like how adding realtime shadow generation has forced Eric to go back and add extra geometry and possibly light dummies etc.

Or creating a car, getting all the physics settings buttoned up, only for the physics to change, making the car undriveable.

I agree that LFS is a great base for a potential mod scene and would be great for bringing LFS to the forefront again, but we need to be patient

I bought a second hand Rift CV1 on the strength of seeing videos of people using it in sims such as LFS and AC. It is a game changer for me as it really makes a difference when going wheel to wheel with other racers.

Also you end up naturally pointing your gaze towards apexes and exits of corners, which has made me a much faster driver than dealing with a monitor display.

I had my own Ronnie O'Sullivan moment shortly after getting the Rift, I was in AC racing the 1960s prototypes around Monza (the configuration covering the original oval and road course against CPU opponents in VR. One of the other cars clipped me coming out the last banked corner, sending me in to the barriers and barrel rolled. I ended up curling up in a ball (bear in mind I am 1.82m tall around 124kgs and sat on a rotating office chair), chair twisted round and I jarred my back....

Had to go see the doctor and ask for painkillers... poor doc did not have a clue what I was going on about lol!

I have learnt my lesson and bought an FK sim rig so I have a proper seat and a nice mounting position for the wheel instead of a desk and swivel chair I was using before

Once I have the funds I do want to upgrade as the resolution is pretty low, but I definitely got the bug for VR!

And by being the first sim to do VR right, I have to commend Scavier for taking the time and implementing it.

I think that multi core support would work really well with LFS, and use the extra unlocked cores for things like improved AI and possibly help with the tire model i.e. it can work to a higher frame rate or even improve the car damage physics i.e rebuild the cars with crumple zones for newer models and make them deform even more like real life cars.

Quote from smove :

I would find it really helpful to have shown/sorted car setups by track, like it was the case in Geoff Crammond's GP Series. Maybe with an unlock-field to view setups for all tracks additionally.
At the moment, you have to choose your setup between all the tracks and track configurations and forward and reverse, which is a looooong list if you have a setup for each.

An other idea (which also came with GP) is to have different onboard views (means simply more than the one slot available atm) for each car which could be customized and cycled through by pressing page up/down ...

Comments on this?

I totally agree on this, but the only addition I'd make is that you can import/export setups to other tracks/combos and possibly mirror the setup if it is asymmetrical i.e. if the original setup is for a clockwise rotating track to a counter clockwise one.

These are fine details but ones that would make the overall experience more pleasant

I think that an angle that Scavier could take is looking in to laser scanning of lesser known tracks i.e. Snetterton, Thruxton,Donnington, Goodwood, Castle Combe and Croft to mention a few in the UK, would be a good learning tool for car enthusiasts aiming to do track days or amateur motor sports.

Do tie ins with grass roots racing series such as the Clio Cup, Formula Ford, Thunder Saloons and what not would also generate free publicity and income.

Another way of making some money is at race events, have a few sim rigs set up so fans can go out on track in their favourite driver's car and get a feel of what it's like to be on the grid.

Let the likes of IRacing and Assetto Corsa battle it out for the larger licenced tracks and higher end motor sports, it's safe to say that they have much larger budgets and teams, so they need to go big or they end up risking going bust. By going for the grass roots of motor sports, it would be a great niche that Scavier could expand out to cover a lot of different car types/formulas without breaking the bank, attracting more users and expand out if it really takes off again.

Another great update Scawen, I was racing on Aston last night (more like propping up the back end!) and can see how much the new version improves on the original

It would be very unwise for the devs to use a different game engine.

Scawen and Eric knows the ins and outs of their own system and although it's taking time, they are making the system work to their needs and not having to try and make the assets and code conform to another system.

If you use a third party engine, you have to work to their developer's systems and pipelines. There's probably a lot in there that is not required too because they're a bit like a Swiss Army Knife.

If LFS was a new project and the content was still in blockout stages, then using an engine such as Unreal 4 or Unity may make sense if time is an issue and you just want something to work out of the box and refine after initial release.

But for an established IP such as LFS, it would require a crazy amount of work to set up all art assets so they can be exported using the 3rd Party's exporter or to take full advantage of the engine's features.

Also the same assets may need more materials set up, which is fine if you have a large team who can essentially port it all over to use the new engine's rendering potential.

But then there is also the issue of trying to re-write the code that handles the car dynamics. One of the things that makes LFS survive the test of time, even if rendering tech had overtaken it over the last several years until now.

Plus if LFS were to use another developer's engine i.e. Unity or UE4, expect the cost of the licences to increase as Scavier would need to recoup the engine licence fee somehow.

It's an obvious request, however we can add to it.

Track temps and moisture can change due to the time of day, example being Blackwood.

It's in the UK and on a sunny Summer's day, humidity is fair, track temp is 40 degrees (enough to make it sticky), and air temperature is 30-33 degrees. Cars are suffering as they need to work harder due to the cooling systems struggling with the heat.

But as the day progresses through to sunset, the air and track temps start dropping. Moisture is building up on the track and through the night, the track starts to get more moist and cool, affecting the grip levels.

The air temperature is helping to keep the cars cooler and gain some more power, so it's a balance of gaining more time on the straights but losing it on the bends.

Sun starts to rise, and the temperature starts to increase, lowering the amount of moisture on the track. By 10-11am, the track is dry and the surface temperature is rising again.

If LFS could introduce this in with a night/day cycle, you'll find that there will be more variety in the racing as a race in the afternoon would feel quite different to in the middle of the night, beyond just visual differences.

Quote from luchian :

Sounds good Scawen. Maybe it'll be motivating not only for us reading, but also for you writing . As a side example, I do not play rF2 at all (or very very rarely), but I do enjoy reading their every month report.

I know what you mean, it's always fun to see the behind the scenes stuff, especially when it's solving an issue. It can give the readers a stronger sense of respect to the devs too if they had to solve something tricky.

I'm itching for the next update now lol

Realtime current lap vs Personal Best lap comparison. This is something I would really love to see, watching it in iRacing on youtube videos is always facinating and maybe set as an option that can be disabled on servers or within the racer's options. This would be a great way for drivers to work out where they are losing/gaining time on the go. Also being able to see the standings with realtime/10 second interval gaps shown. Again, this is something that would work well for spectators as well as drivers.

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Safety ratings would go a long way of homogenizing the online experience, at the moment this is dependant on the server and whether they use the insim plugin. Example being: You can be a prat on server A but if you join server B that server A doesn't share your information with, you could go and wreck a race currently.

So by bringing in the safety rating as a filter for admission to online races, there is a catch all situation. And because it can be toggled, there can still be servers for demolition derbies, cruise, etc which may have an impact on safety ratings.

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Push to Talk: The ability to press a button and transmit a 3-4 second maximum message with anti-spam in effect. Sometimes you need to say something that a key bind message doesn't convey and you're knee deep in the action. There could be an option have a public broadcast and a team mate broadcast. This would mean that teams can communicate without their competitors hearing.

Another offshoot is that for smaller sized grids, the server owner can toggle the ability for broadcasts to be queued if more than one person is sending a Push To Talk broadcast. For larger grids, there is the possibility that everyone is saying "Good Luck!" and the final message is played in to Lap 2, which is not ideal which is where the toggle comes in to use.

I know that some of these are being used as insim add-ons on servers but if we had all this as part of the main application, it will go a long way in making LFS more comparable to more recently released sims.

I had played the demo since the early days and only in 2008 I decided to by S2. No regrets at all and after a hiatus of a few years, I've started racing again. Bloody slow (1.36.5 average on BF with XFG) but whenever I am home I'm having a race or 10

There's a few car types I'd love to see in LFS that would bring the sim up to date, which are;

-Formula E style pure electric based single seater.

-An F1 Hybrid that features the toys from the current F1 cars i.e. KERS, DRS. adjustable ERS and engine maps.

-Fully electric road car/race car variants i.e. Teslas.

-An exotic car class (maybe have 2-3 different cars that are either built for top speed, another for off the line and aero, that is mid engined, 2wd/4wd and high horse power, with race versions with adjustable aero.

A 3cyl 1.0 ltr turbo road car to race alongside the lower end road cars already in the sim. It could be set up so it has better acceleration but suffers with lower torque and top end power.

This would then bring LFS up to date with other sims that have embraced the latest motoring tech which then would open up the sim to a wider audience that may want to play the likes of Assetto Corsa, iRacing and so forth but don't have the pc specs to do so.

@ Scawen, thanks for the write up, it sounds like Eric is giving it all a proper seeing to!

I've been in a similar situation myself, I worked on a port of a game from PS2 to PSP and had to rework old geometry to suit the PSP as all the assets were created in the earlier days of the PS2. As you might imagine, there were environment assets that used modelling techniques that were pretty old school (relying on large surfaces with large amounts of uv repeating, cuts made in to the geometry for vertex lighting, etc) which we had to adjust to suit the PSP better.

It's all worth it though when the final result goes beyond what the original assets could ever have achieved, and I'm sure that when Eric is done, you'll have a base level for the geometry that you know is rock solid.

Can't wait to see the fruits of the labour though, sounds like this will be a pretty beefy update!

Looking great! Loving the new lighting effects and also the specularity of different materials, and it shows how they can make a hell of a lot of difference in visual fidelity.

For me, it's like going from GTA3 to GTA 4 in terms of how much of a difference the lighting/shadows make to the whole ambiance of the scene. When I first played GTA 4, I could just sit there are watch the world go by because every second made a difference to the lighting, shadows, weather affecting specularity of objects and then blowing stuff up and admiring the particle effects

Scawen, you mentioned that Eric has been doing some rebuilding parts of the tracks due to changing how the worlds are lit/shaders, when Eric's work load lightens up (if it ever does), would it be possible to get a run down of what and why the new bits have been rebuilt?

I've worked in the games industry as an environment/character/vehicle artist on PS2/PSP era consoles and any reports on workflow/issues and how they were overcome is fuel for the brain and definitely inspiration.

Another thing I would say to anyone developing any kind of Sim/Game/application, and this is from experience of a semi-failed dev cycle for a sim (not racing but principals apply), if you develop a sim and there are some stand out elements, as soon as the other elements are workable, but not exceptional, release a free version, let people experience it.

Even if there's not a lot of content, it will enable you to get peoples' attention if you have a sim that let's say, does realistic damage, but the tire physics model is using some off the shelf bit of code, that can be updated over the next updates. Once you nail the content generation pipeline then start whacking out the content.

Main thing is just getting the sim's name out there, building up the community and whilst you're refining elements, update as regularly as you can without burning yourself out.

One of the biggest lessons I learnt was that just because a sim doesn't look like the latest big budget version out there, it doesn't matter if it never get's released as there is nothing to show for the hard work.

Hope that helps, I have to admit writing this has been rather cathartic!

Quote from Mates1337 :

Please, edit my screen

There we go These are quite fun to do

Quote from Litro :

Anyone?

Seeing that I was replying to a post that was several years old (keep forgetting to check the timestamps ) I did another one that was a bit more recent... just faffing with effects

Quote from Tonttula :

Can someone edit this pic in any way.

There you go Had a little play in Photoshop, going to be doing similar things with real photos this car show season so it was good to practice

Sophia, much respect is due

Congrats on the transition, I know someone who has started on this journey and how hard and long the journey can be whether physically or socially.

Go get yourself all sorted out with your health issues and in the right head space as I'm sure that LFS will still be about once you are ready and you will find there will be plenty of fans awaiting your latest updates!

I am a big fan of your work as you show an amazing eye for detail with everything you do so I'll also be waiting for updates but only once you are ready

I'm hoping that once pay day comes, I'll be upgrading to S3- I've been following the LFS development since 2002-2003 and really enjoyed playing it but lapsed due to being busy with work, family commitments etc.

All I can say is that if there is a level editor or the means to upload tracks made in 3D Studio Max/Maya, I'll be happier than a pig in poop!

Looking forward to seeing what you guys release next!

Was watching a feature on the show on UK's channel 5 where the presenter was visiting Hyundai's research building and they had a Veloster turbo that doubled up as a simulator for LFS as the footage is projected on to the windscreen!

Nice to see the sim on mainstream TV still