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Personally, I like the GPL rule that you must have at least two wheels on or inside the curbing

It's not a GPL rule, but a general racing rule coming from real life. However, except for drastic changes to the tracks, there can nothing be done about it really. The tires stacks have the problem that once hit the tires fly anywhere, causing potential harm to drivers that are close to the idiot and yet driving regularly. Putting in walls would make it unrealistic and very unsafe if something goes wrong.

Even in GPL they have the occasional wallrider on the open servers. So there is nothing you can do about it except only race with friends and/or in leagues.

Or snipers.

i dont really care about cutting the track, because the one who does gets dirty tires and on some parts you are faster when you do not cut.

But what about the parts that you can cut that aren't made of dirt/grass? Like on Kyoto....

Personally I think nothing should be done to the track. All we need is better suspension damage, and aero/chassis damage. Hitting one of those bumps right now is like smearing cream cheese on a hot bagel (mmm hungry now)... and normally your car would be damaged quite a bit. If this cannot be done, then the obvious solution is a Black Flag system which I thought was going to be in S2, however.... it is not, and we still need it Give the cutter a penalty and you've got yourself a solution.

Quote :

Hitting one of those bumps right now is like smearing cream cheese on a hot bagel (mmm hungry now)... and normally your car would be damaged quite a bit. If this cannot be done, then the obvious solution is a Black Flag system which I thought was going to be in S2, however.... it is not, and we still need it Give the cutter a penalty and you've got yourself a solution.

... any normally your hunger would decrease quite a bit. If this cannot be done, then the obvious solution is a fastfood system which I thought was going to be in S2, however.... it is not. and we are still hungry. Give the hungry a burger and you've got yourself fed.

Ehm, what did you just write?

Vain

The suspension damage isn't the only thing that needs to be fixed. In F1, if you cut the track too much, your wings get damaged and the car becomes harder to drive. At present LFS doesn't simulate damage to aerodynamics at all. Also to hit the sharp edges of the curb should damage your tires too.

EDIT: nothing more

i just watched a formula 3000 video where one car barely touched another car and his wheel and supsension for that wheel just exploded...lfs's damage can be a bit forgiving. after that, the driver died when his car flipped over a wall and his head hit the wall, cracking his helmet midflip....

anyways... better to come for lfs. the devs actually pay attention to us and they have a plan. things will get fixed

I think it's fine that you don't die because of a slight touch in LFS. In LFS we can't just turn our head or watch the car beside us while looking forwards. That's why it is harder to avoid hits in LFS and that's why hits shouldn't do as much damage as in real life.

Vain

after a while, peopel get used to pressing look "left and right" buttons. experienced lfs players are capable of entering most turns side by side if desired without contact.

The damage in LFS is pretty good but it is a bit forgiving, but you have to remember it's not complete. Having the tyres and suspension fly off would be quite difficult (I think anyway ) because depending on the energy going through the suspension and the way it's hit it might stay intact but be slightly damaged. I'd also like to see things happen like Kimi at the Nurburing on the last lap that would be awesome to have the flat spots get worse and affect the car.

Anyway I'm sure devs will improve the damage it just takes time to make it the best possible

Keiran

Quote from Gabkicks :

after a while, peopel get used to pressing look "left and right" buttons. experienced lfs players are capable of entering most turns side by side if desired without contact.

But every driving-beginner can do that in reality, because in real-life you can see forwards while keeping an eye on the one beside you. Here we need a lot of experience and cautiousness because we look only into one direction.
...Or we force everyone to buy a TrackIR-system before he can play online...

Vain

[serious mode]
A couple of solutions without even changing the tracks at all.

Firstly simulate undertray/diffuser damage, would instantly stop any of the GTRs/SS cutting the track.

Secondly realistic suspension damage, single seaters fall apart when you kerb them too hard let alone bounce across the grass at high speed, look at the number of suspension failures the F3 cars get at Pau, and those kerbs are nothing compared to what people clip every lap at a lot of the Fern Bay chicanes, if you clipped one of those at full speed in a modern small single seater IRL you'd be lucky not to have complete suspension collapse, I've seen it happen on everyday race track kerbs as well.

http://www.fota.co.uk/galleryp ... p;season=2006&event=3

[/serious mode]

Sorry to drag this thread up but I didn't want to start another on the same subject.
My idea is to inflict cutters with a 5 second penalty every time they go off track. The technology is in place as in hotlapping. Go off track and lap is invalidated. Instead of invalidating, plonk a time penalty on 'em! How long would it take to train people up to the art of keeping it on the island?
No only that, you wouldn't have to put tyre stacks/straw bales in strategic places, which elicit howls of anguish (It's on the racing line!) and nothing needs to be done to the tracks themselves.
As a side issue it may well induce a little more care in the general driving standards
Thank you.

Sounds like a pretty decent idea as a placeholder until the damage modelling is sorted.

But now that we have the guide line thing, it's pretty damn easy to check whether an obstacle is actually on the racing line or not

Quote from Dajmin :

Sounds like a pretty decent idea as a placeholder until the damage modelling is sorted.

But now that we have the guide line thing, it's pretty damn easy to check whether an obstacle is actually on the racing line or not

I know that and you know that, but try convincing people that habitually cut chicanes that.

What about putting hidden stingers in the gravel/grass?

fill the sand with mines.
i mean invisible barriers. :P

Quote from Doorman :

I know that and you know that, but try convincing people that habitually cut chicanes that.

Adding time to the final times by using artificial intelligence (or simple scripts) adds a new problem. Someone needs to fine tune the system so it a) works b) doesn't give penalties for nothing. Like in iracing, it is frustrating to avoid a wreck by going off the road and getting a penalty for it.

I think my system would be better . With the ground surface wearing off on the places where people drive on would make the shortcut void after a while. And in a way it would be more natural, you still could go for the "shorter" route but there was the added danger of spinning due to bottoming out and/or breaking your car. Plus add the other idea that was suggested a while back about dirt spreading on the road.

This topic got out of hand.

Or make it realistic in a way that there are some pot holes here and there on the grass.

And maybe a beaver that is running over.

Quote from Doorman :

Sorry to drag this thread up but I didn't want to start another on the same subject.
My idea is to inflict cutters with a 5 second penalty every time they go off track. The technology is in place as in hotlapping. Go off track and lap is invalidated. Instead of invalidating, plonk a time penalty on 'em! How long would it take to train people up to the art of keeping it on the island?
No only that, you wouldn't have to put tyre stacks/straw bales in strategic places, which elicit howls of anguish (It's on the racing line!) and nothing needs to be done to the tracks themselves.
As a side issue it may well induce a little more care in the general driving standards
Thank you.

The idea seems good to me, only problem (as stated above) is the unfairness, the arbitrary application of the penalty.

Ex: If 2 drivers end up in the above described chicane at the same time, and play if fair, they may be forced to take wide lines way off the ideal racin line and thus get undeserved penalties for it.

Ex2: miss your braking point under pressure and you get a bit wide - ok, you slow down and get back on track, position lost. Did you deserve an extra 5 second penalty for it?

Extra obstacles (visible) do a better punishment job in theory but with the current collision detection they might as well send you to the moon... and if your field is tight flying tyres may cause a massive wreck - mass punishment?

I think a few cones well disposed with a collision detection, penalty linked (like training? I'm no programmer but it seems possible), may work, because it might be easier to tweak (penalty after a number of cones, or penalty above a number of cones/ lap or anything the like).

Thanks for digging up this thread, interesting to read knowing how LFS evolved. We are coming closer to a solution it seems

Cutting is sort of okay on rally tracks though. Don't they do that on real rally? Although that's rally, not rally cross so maybe not.

Quote from Mille Sabords :

The idea seems good to me, only problem (as stated above) is the unfairness, the arbitrary application of the penalty.

Ex: If 2 drivers end up in the above described chicane at the same time, and play if fair, they may be forced to take wide lines way off the ideal racin line and thus get undeserved penalties for it.

Ex2: miss your braking point under pressure and you get a bit wide - ok, you slow down and get back on track, position lost. Did you deserve an extra 5 second penalty for it?

Extra obstacles (visible) do a better punishment job in theory but with the current collision detection they might as well send you to the moon... and if your field is tight flying tyres may cause a massive wreck - mass punishment?

I think a few cones well disposed with a collision detection, penalty linked (like training? I'm no programmer but it seems possible), may work, because it might be easier to tweak (penalty after a number of cones, or penalty above a number of cones/ lap or anything the like).

Thanks for digging up this thread, interesting to read knowing how LFS evolved. We are coming closer to a solution it seems

Usually people don't go wide into corners that you can cut (because,well, you can't)

Well, I do
AS tracks with the chicane, if you miss you braking point at the end of the long straight you end up wide and you may have to cut according to your (failed) line, in order to avoid the rest of the field. I did that mistake a few when I jumped from LX6 into a FZS and back in CTRA servers.

The collision system doesn't seem to be that bad with movable objects, so hay bales and tyres don't cause the same orbiting issue. I'd go with just sticking them down at any potential trouble spots.

Forza 2 adds all the time you're off the track as a time penalty, but in these situations that wouldn't work because the time it takes to jump the grass is far less than the time it'd take you to go round the track properly, so you'd still benefit.

More bumpy grass that you can dig into would be great. And with undertray damage, even better. They'd only do it once then

How would a 5 second penalty work in a race? Just an addition of the total time at the end of the race? If so, wouldn't a drive through penalty be better?

Edit: Christ, of course it's not a deduction, but an addition...nobody saw it, so...keep moving.

Quote from CasseBent :

wouldn't a drive through penalty be better?

Seems a bit harsh for accidentally cutting a kerb too tight, especially if it was because you had half lost control (for some other reason).