hmm I played with keyboard till the famous "E" patch... then I bought a wheel what was the best choice I could done, because it made much more fun and I was able to beat my old times within two days...

There also still some good keyboard players and guides around (I thing sccabco has a special subforum for keyboard drivers)...

But we are living in a free world and everyone can decide for himself

Quote from Carsten_DK :

I´ve heard all the arguments before, so there is no point in going on..

If you've so decided.

I just play LFS to have fun, I never entered any league, and I still do it today.

What's different?

My father also had trouble with LFS (he has momo racing wheel), he plays most of the games you listed as well as some others including GTR and GTL and I would regard him as quite a skilled driver in real life.

But when he spent a few days on and off searching these forums, asking me for advise on wheel settings and just experimenting with wheel settings he did get pleasing results. He still wasn't very fast in lap times, but when I sent him a bunch of good setups and some replays to watch, he reported that he was doing much better and enjoying the game alot more

Wheel related threads:
http://www.lfsforum.net/showthread.php?t=4528
http://www.lfsforum.net/showthread.php?t=5589

Setup related threads:
http://www.lfsforum.net/showthread.php?t=279
http://www.lfsforum.net/showthread.php?t=4153

Quote from Carsten_DK :

I must realise, that the developers and I obviously want different things. Thats why I must give up...

Yep. I definitely agree. Two different things.

The developers wish to continue to develop LFS as they began to do with S1, and continued doing with S2, and will continue in the future with S3. In short, the developers wish to do exactly what they set out to do. It's still the same thing that they were doing when you bought in, during S1.. building the best online racing simulator in three stages.

So yes. If you want them to stop furthering LFS, you're in conflict with the developers. You're also in conflict with just about every other LFS driver around. There can't be many people who want development of LFS to stop, besides you. Not many at all.

If it's the wheel you can't get along with, then two things spring to mind.

One is that you're "different" from most of us in some way. Very few people have the choice of a wheel and a keyboard and opt for the keyboard.

The other thing that comes to mind is that, since it's the wheel you're conflicting with, it's actually not LFS that's the issue. It's your personal preference that's at the heart of the problem, and your inability to effectively make use of your tool-of-choice.

You prefer the keyboard but you believe that LFS no longer caters for the keyboard. I disagree. A very good friend of mine is an avid keyboard user, and he's within a second of several of the WRs on LFS right now. So I can state with absolute certainty that drivers CAN make good use of the keyboard with LFS S2, IF that's the interface they choose to use.

So it's not as easy as it used to be? Well it just got more realistic, that's all. Exactly what it's always supposed to have been doing. Nothing's changed DIRECTION at the LFS end. If you've decided to move on, then I totally support you in what you're doing. But I MUST protest when you try to blame LFS where I think it's plain that LFS is NOT, in ANY way, at fault.

Quote from Carsten_DK :

I´ve heard all the arguments before, so there is no point in going on..

See you in another game...

Quote from StanleyCarter :

Carsten you have a wheel and dont use it? argh.. I thought GC was the only crazy guy here :P

Well, of course it takes some time to get used to wheel, specially because you have to start steering much earlier, and learn not to steer too much. But after a few days it's fun

i use to kb too as orion may remember from the begining i always thought lfs was too easy with kb, but it also let a kber compete with someone with a wheel on almost the same level, but deep in i always wanted to control the drifts without the computers help, that happened when scawen changed the kb control as we all know and i have to say i wasnt too happy with it at first also, it was like learning all again the same game but i was willing to do so. a few weeks after all this a dear friend called SpiderX gave me his old msff wheel, and being slower at first and all the fun is just much superior to whatever it is you feel playing with kb. id say it took me 2 months to get up to speed and i enjoyed them fully.

I was racing on the dSRC server last night (great server, as always [free plug]) in my trusty LX4 whilst all around me were using the infinitely dull FXO. But anyway, I digress, I was beaten once or twice by a certain Fat Panda from team Clownpaint, and he is a keyboard user.

I know it's FWD, and thats easier with keyboard, but he was very quick round the fastest circuit, and to do that you need a touch of drift which he was controlling WHILST racing people.

If you give up on keyboard it's not cos it's too hard, but because you don't have the willingness to bother.

I have a black momo as well, but I don't use it for LFS - believe me, I've tried a lot, but I just can't get used to it in LFS.

In RBR, the wheel feels pretty good and I'm much faster there than with my joystick. In LFS, it's the opposite.

Carsten_DK, if you dont have the balls to make an effort and get good on the wheel, mouse or KB then this is the wrong game/sim for you. No matter which control method you choose, there are people that can do top ten HLVC laps with those control methods, just because you cant do it doesnt mean the game is bad.

I cant play golf but its not the game's fault is it?

Anyway, BYE BYE dont let the door hit your arse on the way out.

Quote from tristancliffe :

I was racing on the dSRC server last night (great server, as always [free plug]) in my trusty LX4 whilst all around me were using the infinitely dull FXO. But anyway, I digress, I was beaten once or twice by a certain Fat Panda from team Clownpaint, and he is a keyboard user.

I know it's FWD, and thats easier with keyboard, but he was very quick round the fastest circuit, and to do that you need a touch of drift which he was controlling WHILST racing people.

If you give up on keyboard it's not cos it's too hard, but because you don't have the willingness to bother.

Yea it's quite surprising, but FXO is one of the easiest cars for kb, maybe because the limit is not that small, like in the UF1 for example (where you have to push really hard but still be clean to get fast around the turns without losing speed, it's a bit like real life cart racing )

@Barroso:

:lfs: keeps getting better with each and every update... at least it does for me.

Some people don't have the patience to learn new things instead of reverting back to same ol' ways. During my years with LFS, I've gone from keyboard -> mouse -> MS non-FF wheel -> DFP -> DFP + clutch pedal + seq-shifter and every time I made a switch my lap times and consistency went to trash can for some time. But you just gotta stick with it and you'll see results later.
Although LFS is far from perfect, there simply isn't any other sim for me that feels as natural.
But best of luck with you in new games!

Well for some reason I can play LFS with keyboard pretty nicely. People who say it's impossible are just not willing to take the time to actually try and learn to use the keyboard they drive like 2 laps and go "Damn, it's like totally impossible" and when they meet someone online who says they are useing keyboard then "Yea, whatever I know you are actually useing a wheel because it's impossible to drive with keyboard."
I just didn't make those sentences up I have been told similar stuff while playin' I am not saying that I am fast or anything with the keyboard but what I am saying is that it is possible to drive at normal speeds and be competetive online.
my times so far:
BL1
XRT-1:24:64
XFG-1:33:5
and there is still a lil' room for improvment
(I hope you can understand my english )

Quote from Batterypark :

I have a black momo as well, but I don't use it for LFS - believe me, I've tried a lot, but I just can't get used to it in LFS.

In RBR, the wheel feels pretty good and I'm much faster there than with my joystick. In LFS, it's the opposite.

Huh? are you sure you're using the correct settings for LFS?

Quote from deggis :

Huh? are you sure you're using the correct settings for LFS?

If you mean the Logitech control panel, then yes, I am. I've tried "wrong" values too. As for the in-game settings, it's mostly down to personal preference, but I've experimented quite a lot there as well.

Havent read any posts other than the first one.

If you steer the cars with the keys then you are a fool. There is a mouse sitting next to you that will give you analog steering and make the cars a million times easier to drive.

Quote from Carsten_DK :

the game now is for mechanics/hardcore sim-drivers only,

It's a real shame, when it could've been another oh-so-rare "some car game"

Quote from Carsten_DK :

See you in another game...

Maybe Toca3 is more your thing, but you won't see any of us there

Quote from Rob76 :

Maybe Toca3 is more your thing, but you won't see any of us there

yeah ahhahahahaha. hahaha. ha.
:tempted: :slap:

Well... Let me do my talk now

I'll keep it shortly, most things that needed to be said are said.
The only thing that I find disturbing at KB/wheel/mouse/joythingy/... is...the level of competition. Don't forget, it isn't all about hotlaping (sorry Rudi & Biggie!). I want to go online, get in a nice,clean server, race, learn a new combo, and be able after x time to race for a reasonable ending position, or at least be able to follow wheel/mouse racers. It would make LFS perfect. It makes me bit sad to see my fastest times are like 1 second behind the fastest wheel racer even if I had 2x as much laps doneo n that combo, and then I'm not talking about Biggie's times or so, just general online times (and ok, I'm not thé fast speedy guy but...).

So, improve something, make the level of competition higher, slightly, not much..just make it a bit more fair. Not by introducing all sorts of 'help systems' for kb racers, we don't have to be the fastest..just let us have fun also in the online racing by being able to compete online. I think a lot of demo racers who often us KB would make thé step that changes your life to LFS S2 !

I'm not saying this out of own intrest, perhaps a little bit..but do you think it's fun for me like this? I understand KBers will (beside oval or something rallyisch) not have any WR's (like AS GP FO8 ) thàt's normal, can't argue with that, it's just the handicap KB has! But...LFS is about the online part, the online racing! And if KBers become a bit closer to the general wheel racing level, it would be móre fun randomly online, but also in certain league's. So...the general fun for KBers as for wheel racers as for Mouse racers as for .... would increase. But somehow nobody realises thàt..

About the 'do you see a wheel in a real car?' and 'LFS is about simulation' arguement.. True, completly true. BUT, LFS stays a great game. See the 'game' aspect?! I want to have fun with LFS, and I must say it is véry hard to keep my intrest in LFS, but hey..I'm still here

So... Conclusion:

KB will be slower then another controller.
Wheel is the best racing controller.
The level of competiton CAN increase in LFS.
The fun CAN increase in LFS.
The realisme CAN increase in LFS.
And that realsime CAN increase, without pushing KB-ers and 'alternative' controller users down and making them slower.
LFS is a great game.

We can all agree about that ?

And as far as I see it, it's about how much this great LFS Community supports us few KB-ers in reaching this, and the (good) willing of the Devs. So therefor I hope that the LFS community see's my arguements in a good way, and understands that it is also 'better' for them, for everyone.

You can buy a dual analogue control pad on Ebay for about 10-15 pounds inc p&p, which will give you precision control over steering, braking and throttle. I can't see why anyone would want to race with a keyboard unless they're on a laptop and it's not feasible to lug control pads and wheels around.

Look, it is not about 'why don't you buy a wheel, it's only €25 euros for a cheap one on e-bay', nor it's about to convince people in this topic to buy a wheel, nor why certain people don't race with a wheel.

It's about the fact that there are KB racers in LFS and those few people ask something to this community and Devs, in the hope to get heared.