The online racing simulator
Lower profile tire on GTR cars
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(35 posts, started )
#1 - kirmy
Lower profile tire on GTR cars
On the big gtr cars the tire seems to be much larger than it would be in real life, my suggestion is to make the tires much closer to real racing size, and also increase the rim size to accomodate the lower profile tire.

what are your thoughts
Yes and they need to make sure ALL Cars, in CLASS, can exit the sand traps or other off track excursions.
I don't agree...
First of all the GTR in live for speed are more similar to the Super GT in Japan...
And that tires make the cars nice to drive and even if in reality it is smaller (I don't know in fact...) I don't see why we need to have exactly the same cars
The GTR tires are already pretty low profile.
#5 - bbman
There's maybe 1" difference between the LfS GTRs and real ones, so I'm not really fussed about it...
#6 - JJ72
Quote from nmanley :Yes and they need to make sure ALL Cars, in CLASS, can exit the sand traps or other off track excursions.

you almost never escape a sand trap in real life.
We are NOT racing real life. Takes a sponsor to do that.
We are just racing on computers and it's more fun to be able to complete league races EVEN if we make a mistake or are on the butt end of others mistakes.
#8 - JJ72
I prefer people actually improve their driving because they know the price, real or virtual
Quote from nmanley :We are just racing on computers and it's more fun to be able to complete league races EVEN if we make a mistake or are on the butt end of others mistakes.

It's not proper racing when you don't have to worry about retiring. Part of the excitement is to be able to negotiate different situations on track. Some guys see the accidents coming and take evasive actions. Some end up off the track wondering what the heck just happened
Quote from nmanley :Yes and they need to make sure ALL Cars, in CLASS, can exit the sand traps or other off track excursions.

None of the cars in LFS, with the possible exception of the RB4 should stand a remote chance of getting out of a gravel trap.
Quote from ajp71 :None of the cars in LFS, with the possible exception of the RB4 should stand a remote chance of getting out of a gravel trap.

Big +1.
Quote from nmanley :We are NOT racing real life. Takes a sponsor to do that.
We are just racing on computers and it's more fun to be able to complete league races EVEN if we make a mistake or are on the butt end of others mistakes.

This is a simulator, and a simulator simulates what happen in real life

Quote from ajp71 :None of the cars in LFS, with the possible exception of the RB4 should stand a remote chance of getting out of a gravel trap.

+2
Didn't you hear what serious cat said?

This is serious sim. He are serious cat.

As for the OP, I think lower profile tyres is a bit ricer. IRL low profile tyres just mean a far less comfortable ride (even GTRs have to be someway driveable), more of a chance of a blowout, etc. GTR cars need to avoid these as much as possible, since they are mainly used for long ranges

I would like to see lower profiles on some of the road cars though, some of them look a little bit too big compared to real life cars. Maybe that's for S2 Beta/S3 when new, more modern cars are introduced though?
Doesn't lower profile tires also give less tirewall flex/bend? I'd assume that'd be helpful in keeping a nice contacy patch... *shrug*
Thing is, lower-profile tyre, coupled with lightweight, strong race-spec wheels will lower unsprung weight dramatically. On top of it, they provide a better contact patch, and allow better changes in direction - less tyrewall flex means that the change from one direction to another is faster and more precise. These advantages outweigh those of a comfortable ride (who cares about that in a race? Tracks are usually smoother than regular roads, and if you're last, who cares how comfy the ride was?). Only Formula 1 and other single-seaters use high-profile tyres, but even is only in order to counter the extremely stiff suspensions they use in order to extract maximum downforce.

For reference, two of the world's top GT cars, archrivals C6R and the DBR9, use very low-profile tyres. Compare that to those on LFS' GTR cars..
#16 - Woz
Quote from gingiba :Thing is, lower-profile tyre, coupled with lightweight, strong race-spec wheels will lower unsprung weight dramatically. On top of it, they provide a better contact patch, and allow better changes in direction - less tyrewall flex means that the change from one direction to another is faster and more precise. These advantages outweigh those of a comfortable ride (who cares about that in a race? Tracks are usually smoother than regular roads, and if you're last, who cares how comfy the ride was?). Only Formula 1 and other single-seaters use high-profile tyres, but even is only in order to counter the extremely stiff suspensions they use in order to extract maximum downforce.

For reference, two of the world's top GT cars, archrivals C6R and the DBR9, use very low-profile tyres. Compare that to those on LFS' GTR cars..

So what. Why does it matter. Your request is no different than people asking for more BHP in the TBO class because modern cars are more powerful. Matters not as long as the cars are balanced. Close racing is all that matters. More cars it more important that pointless tweaks like this.
I didn't request it in any way, I just pointed out that lower-profile tyres are used, and why they are used. And I agree that new cars (not necessarily modern, I'd rather have a Fulvia) are more important - though adjusting the tyre profiles (on the whole class, if you want to keep the balancing) isn't much more than five minutes. Now's the time to tweak these cars, since the changes already affected the balancing.
the fzrs tyres almost looks like they came from monster trucking in comparison
Attached images
sidewall.jpg
Quote from Shotglass :the fzrs tyres almost looks like they came from monster trucking in comparison

Sorry, but no.
Those tyres almost look like the same if you look at them closely.
Does anyone have a tool to measure the height and width of the GTR tyres? I bet they are at least almost the same.

Tyres in Motorsports are as high as neccessary to keep the lateral grip as long as possible by flexing the tyre walls. And they are as low-profile as possible to keep a sharp reaction. So F1 tyres allow the chassis to move a little more while keeping the contact patch planted on the grey stuff, thus gripping very well.
I remember The XRR having 18 inch wheels on the rear axle and 19ers in the front, I just don't know how wide and high the tyres actually are.

greetz

der butz
@ der butz, i think he may have been sarcastic...
No, never :rolleyes: sarcasm FTW!
Argh, you've got me there :-)

But I've got two excuses:

1. Exams start tomorrow, I'm feckin tired (tyred? :-)) and my head feels like totally empty.

2. I'm a humourless german from an ice planet or so. Nevermind

greetz

der ubzt
The only reason F-1 is sticking to tiny 13 inch wheels and high sidewalls is the rules that mandate them. If more sensible sizes such as 15 inch wheels and same overall tire dimensions were permitted, the current wheels will soon go the way of the dodo.

In this era of CFD and ever more detailing to squeeze ever tinier gains out of an ever more over restricted car (courtesy of the Federation of Idiotic Arses), high sidewalls are a REALLY bad thing, especially when the sidewalls bulged under load in ways that completely screw up all those airflow interactions optimized through countless man hours and $$$ of testing. One example of this is the OMEGA tire from Michelin back in the good ole Michelin vs. Bridgestone days. The tire in isolation was worth almost a second per lap, but it was culled because its sidewall bulge characteristics interfered with the airflow so much the car ended up more than 2 seconds of the baseline (car with same aero package and conventional tires of the time) pace.

A tire of the same dimensions as currently used but with 15 inch wheels and more sensible sidewall height would obviously benefit from better tire dimensional stability, much better steering response and superior overall grip. In fact, Bridgestone engineers bluntly stated that a 15 inch version of current F-1 tires could easily end up almost undrivable due to G-LOC. This assume similar to current levels of downforce of course.

Remember the Renault mass damper debacle? The reason they used such as device was to cancel the very much unwanted harmonics from tires, which are underdamped.

In GT cars, 18 inches is both mandated by the rules and happens to be a very optimal size. Note that no one is silly enough to go back to smaller wheel, higher profile sizes these days, mostly due to very obvious technical reasons. Racing is the automotive equivalent of war, and in war, only victory counts.
Quote from Shotglass :the fzrs tyres almost looks like they came from monster trucking in comparison

You're not allowed to do straight-faced sarcasm because you're German. Even if you've been doing it here for years. Nobody's going to understand.

Sucks to be German.
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