I think it will be good idea for leagues to able change ads on tracks. 
Server-side ADS
An emphatic no from me, sounds far too much like cheap nasty advertising. It may be an idea to have easily switchable ads from in game (like cars skins are atm) though 
First I thought "ADS" is something else than "advertising".
Now when I know what it means, I give +1. Why? Well, it would add some more colour to the race. CTRA-banners on CTRA-race etc.
Now when I know what it means, I give +1. Why? Well, it would add some more colour to the race. CTRA-banners on CTRA-race etc.
As I recall, there was a discussion about this regarding to the latest test patches that make all the signs skinnable.
+1 in theory, but -11111111 in reality. You would have to have the images uploaded to either LFS World, or the local LFS Server, and I doubt very much that the devs want to absorb the added storage and bandwidth required for this. And I am absolutely certain that server providers wouldn't tolerate it. Besides, to go into a server that had server-side ads, plus perhaps up to 30 some skins to download, you're talking about minutes to get into a server versus seconds, and I highly doubt that players would tolerate that either.
I wonder, though, if LFS could be written to look for a "pic-{league_name}" folder for custom ads based on the folder name as specified in the server cfg file. Then just have the league host a zip file to download and place in that folder. If the sim doesn't see the folder, it reverts back to standard.
+1 in theory, but -11111111 in reality. You would have to have the images uploaded to either LFS World, or the local LFS Server, and I doubt very much that the devs want to absorb the added storage and bandwidth required for this. And I am absolutely certain that server providers wouldn't tolerate it. Besides, to go into a server that had server-side ads, plus perhaps up to 30 some skins to download, you're talking about minutes to get into a server versus seconds, and I highly doubt that players would tolerate that either.
I wonder, though, if LFS could be written to look for a "pic-{league_name}" folder for custom ads based on the folder name as specified in the server cfg file. Then just have the league host a zip file to download and place in that folder. If the sim doesn't see the folder, it reverts back to standard.
Please don't make any decisions for the devs or server-hosting providers. If the devs allow uploading of ads to LFSWorld, OK. Explain to me, what makes you so certain that server providers would't tolerate ads? They can place their own ads onto the server and provide the hosting for free, which in result will bring more servers to the game. And another thing. Why do you think, that downloading ads will make the loading last for minutes? Have you done tests or what? I have an average internet connection and it takes about half a second to load one skin. You would have to download hundreds of ads in order to make the loading last minutes. And I haven't seen a track in LFS with that much advertising placeholders.
Concerning how the LFS is "written", if it can download and change car skins, it could also change the trackside ads.
It would take extra bandwidth but server owners could also advert their servers 
It would be neat, but as it is now we have the beginnings of it, at least we can make videos with the ads in there if you felt the need.
It would be neat, but as it is now we have the beginnings of it, at least we can make videos with the ads in there if you felt the need.This idea has my support. This is for several reasons, not least because unless something like this happens, the CTRA system (and all the CTRA systems that we're trying to make to follow it) have a very finite life. That's simply a fact.
Objections to this idea are mean. Everybody skins their cars up to the hilt with branding of their own, or brands they have a fondness for, or just brands they think are cool-looking. If the skins feature were taken away, you guys would all have an issue. And rightly so.
The CTRA has taken many thousands of man-hours to create, and it takes both money to run it, and literally hundreds of man-hours a month to keep the standards up. So, from a server operator's perspective, it looks bloody cheeky when someone who uses the servers we provide, turns around (with their car skins blazing!) and says that the people who FUND the servers shouldn't be allowed to skin the billboard advertising. It's mean AND it's short-sighted.
In-game billboards already exist. LFS would look weird without it! At the moment, most of the billboards carry fake brands. Some of them carry real brands. If we could secure financial security for the CTRA through relevent brand advertising on those billboards, we have a secure future. In fact we're counting on it coming and we're entirely dependent on it. [edit] or I need to find a full-time, permanent job. Net result would be the same
Objections to this idea are mean. Everybody skins their cars up to the hilt with branding of their own, or brands they have a fondness for, or just brands they think are cool-looking. If the skins feature were taken away, you guys would all have an issue. And rightly so.
The CTRA has taken many thousands of man-hours to create, and it takes both money to run it, and literally hundreds of man-hours a month to keep the standards up. So, from a server operator's perspective, it looks bloody cheeky when someone who uses the servers we provide, turns around (with their car skins blazing!) and says that the people who FUND the servers shouldn't be allowed to skin the billboard advertising. It's mean AND it's short-sighted.
In-game billboards already exist. LFS would look weird without it! At the moment, most of the billboards carry fake brands. Some of them carry real brands. If we could secure financial security for the CTRA through relevent brand advertising on those billboards, we have a secure future. In fact we're counting on it coming and we're entirely dependent on it. [edit] or I need to find a full-time, permanent job. Net result would be the same
Top-quality post, Sam 
Yes, like SamH said it, it has other purposes than just "make the track look different". I wouldn't mind if there would be "product placements" in LFS.
I would change the billboards on my servers to advertise associations I would like to support or they have supported me (For example, CTRA and Tampere University of Applied Sciences: Supported my "car cockpit simulation in car simulator" project financially).
I would change the billboards on my servers to advertise associations I would like to support or they have supported me (For example, CTRA and Tampere University of Applied Sciences: Supported my "car cockpit simulation in car simulator" project financially).
I'd give a certain yes if I could be sure the ads nice.
Yeah, I think that's important. Obviously it would have to be down to the individual server ops, and if you found the ads offensive you can vote with your wheels.
I can only vouch for what we'd do, which would be to keep with the spirit of LFS and only have relevent advertising, entirely in keeping with motorsports banner advertising. That doesn't mean that we'd only allow sponsorship from actual motorsports advertisers (although it'd be nice, and would be great if we could attract it), but we'd take a responsible and professional approach to deploying the advertising.. nothing rancid.. nothing that would look out of place, etc.
[edit] Wasn't it Battlefield 2042, where the in-game advertising was for IBM dual-core machines? That wasn't what you'd call well-placed advertising, in a game set 45 years in the future. We'd do better than that, I promise!
First you have to think if the real companies that appear in adverts currently have PAID for that placement. If so they would not be happy if server admins could change them.
While the idea is fine and might give server admins revenue it raises the question of bandwidth etc. The client should also have the option to disable adverts.
Problems include objectionable material, people using stupid image sizes that effect FPS etc.
For me this should be so far down the to do stack that it will not get done. Lots of work to implement. Downloading, sizing, temp storage to not effect original adverts when on different server etc.
not -1 or +1 from me just 0 and only if client can disable like skin downloads.
TBH I would bet many would disable if they could.
While the idea is fine and might give server admins revenue it raises the question of bandwidth etc. The client should also have the option to disable adverts.
Problems include objectionable material, people using stupid image sizes that effect FPS etc.
For me this should be so far down the to do stack that it will not get done. Lots of work to implement. Downloading, sizing, temp storage to not effect original adverts when on different server etc.
not -1 or +1 from me just 0 and only if client can disable like skin downloads.
TBH I would bet many would disable if they could.
As far as I know, this is not the case.
Same goes to car & helmet skins. They also requires bandwidth.
Same goes to car & helmet skins (No offensive/rasistic/etc skins. Must be 1024x1024/512x512).
The ads in an LFS server amount to less bandwidth than a single low-res skin on a single car on track on the server. Bandwidth is not an issue.
[edit] correction, just a bit over. But that's with the files included in an LFS install. Optimized, I could get those down to next-to-nothing and looking damn good
Blackwood ads are less than 220k. That's less than opening a raceauthority.com webpage.
[edit] correction, just a bit over. But that's with the files included in an LFS install. Optimized, I could get those down to next-to-nothing and looking damn good
Blackwood ads are less than 220k. That's less than opening a raceauthority.com webpage.
+1 and have an option to disable downloading the ads.
There wouldn't be much point in having them if the user could turn them off. Then nearly everyone would disable downloading them to save bandwidth. Even though as Sam pointed out, they would be less than 200kb for an entire track...They would have to be forced, but maybe the user could decide if they want lo-res/hi-res?
I asked Scawen about this a couple of years back when I was looking at a setting up a sim centre and wanted to change the adverts (Around the time when S2 came out) and there were deals in place then. They might have lapsed now.
Okay, then I was wrong. The reason for this was that you had "inside-information" and I didn't.
If the sponsor deals are still in place, then I guess this case is closed.
Bandwidth / file size I doubt is too much of an issue, it's probably principle for most people.
Many are sick of forced advertising everywhere you look. Granted, LFS comes with ads as textures, but these could easily be changed to pics of family n friends or whatever you wanted if that was your preference.
This suggestion IMO, is nothing but greed... just like most marketing droids wet dreams.
Regards,
Ian
If someone posts suggesting real cars or real tracks they got shot down, but real ads... ?
I can understand Sam's point of view, but I'm with Bill Hicks: you have to do what can and plant seeds...
I can understand Sam's point of view, but I'm with Bill Hicks: you have to do what can and plant seeds...
Serverside ads could be a real possibility. Instead of uploading them to LFS World, how about from the server itself? A person running a dedi would put their ads into an "Ads" folder, and connecting clients would download them directly from it. It could cause lag on servers with relatively low bandwith, but maybe the server operator could have an option on the max speed ad pictures are downloaded.
Two problems with this....
1. I don't want to go on a server and have a bunch of ridiculous stuff on the ad boards because that is what the server owner set it up like. We already have a community that is full of people who act like immature idiots (young and old alike). You can say don't go there, but then when that's the only place with other's racing, you don't have a choice if you want to race.
So, the solution to that is to have it optional and a default ad textures that your LFS uses if you disable. That leads to the problem number 2.....
2. I do like this idea in the sense of CTRA and what SamH says. The professionalism and maturity of the CTRA guys allow me to believe that they would be extremely mature about ads on the servers. CTRA would have legitimate ads from server sponsors and I'm sure they would be well thought out to fall into the racing sense. But, if you have the option of disabling it, then those sponsors will not receive what they are paying for, the exposure to their ads.
Disclaimer: Sam has been the one vocal in the using ads for sponsorship for the server. I don't mean to imply that CTRA would be the only one who was mature about all this. I'm sure that other teams/systems/leagues that are popular would be just as decent about it. I don't want to make this look like I think CTRA is the only ones that would do it right and all others are in the category of my #1 up there.
1. I don't want to go on a server and have a bunch of ridiculous stuff on the ad boards because that is what the server owner set it up like. We already have a community that is full of people who act like immature idiots (young and old alike). You can say don't go there, but then when that's the only place with other's racing, you don't have a choice if you want to race.
So, the solution to that is to have it optional and a default ad textures that your LFS uses if you disable. That leads to the problem number 2.....
2. I do like this idea in the sense of CTRA and what SamH says. The professionalism and maturity of the CTRA guys allow me to believe that they would be extremely mature about ads on the servers. CTRA would have legitimate ads from server sponsors and I'm sure they would be well thought out to fall into the racing sense. But, if you have the option of disabling it, then those sponsors will not receive what they are paying for, the exposure to their ads.
Disclaimer: Sam has been the one vocal in the using ads for sponsorship for the server. I don't mean to imply that CTRA would be the only one who was mature about all this. I'm sure that other teams/systems/leagues that are popular would be just as decent about it. I don't want to make this look like I think CTRA is the only ones that would do it right and all others are in the category of my #1 up there.
+1 , but with option to disable ...
BF2142 had in game ads (that I never noticed), BF2's "Tampa Bay" map had a "Intel Quad Core, Do More" ad that looked **** as it's meant to be in the Middle East.
+1 with no option to disable. I'm guessing all of you in this thread have used the CTRA servers, and used servers on the UKCT box at some point - we provide these services free (even though the server itself isn't fee - "we" pay around £100 a month iirc, a cost paid soley by UKCT, mainly by people like Sam). Why is it so evil that UKCT want to fund our servers (when I say fund, I mean get no where near enough money to recoup the cost of the server) with ads? You already have them in LFS to start off with ffs.
EDIT - Really should pay some time :X
Server-side ADS
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