Hmm, I just watched it. Protest is about spinning, there isn't any spin there
, just barely touched the back of his car. Not to mention he was unpredictable slow out of that corner.Hmm, I just watched it. Protest is about spinning, there isn't any spin there
, just barely touched the back of his car. Not to mention he was unpredictable slow out of that corner.Okay, we can put a new wording there and say "put him into the wall", if that makes you happier?
why has 11 got a DT? he gave the position back
Edit: Never mind
Edit: Never mind
Paul, our team was accused in post 1 of chatting during the qual, so I went through the replay(to confirm), and to save the admins here time I thought I would share my findings, rightly or wrongly teams have now been penalised by the moe staff, I am happy to leave it there.
Personally I think in league events IMO chatting during qual is just bad etiquitte, and can be off-putting for others.
SD.
First post updated.
A (hopefully) final update to the first post.
I've appealed this here: http://www.lfsforum.net/showthread.php?p=585923#post585923
And i agree with that if those are the rules anyone chatting should be penalised, the difference is i'd like to know why this rule applies to some teams and not to all! A Mercury driver chatted, he got penalised, end of story, im not debating that in the slightest, if thats the rule then its not up for debate is it. What im annoyed at is the fact that Hoellsen is intentionally disregarding the rules, its not accidental, accidents are things you do unintentionally, being informed, making some changes based on that, then ignoring everything said for 12hrs is an intentional action.
You saw it, i saw it, and Hoellsen saw it.
You acknowledged it, I acknowledged it, Hoellsen plays hear no, see no, speak no.
Its intentional disregard to following rules that he's enforcing and its a complete piss-take. There arent exceptional circumstances, they typed TWO messages, INTENTIONALLY, and nothing happens while other teams accidently press the wrong key, and they're punished.
How is the series supposed to be taken seriously when the person supposedly in charge ignores things pointed out to him well in advance of the race taking place, instead its into the shell and pretend things didnt happen, just like he did after Westhill where it took them 3 months to explain why they screwed up, one of the admins giving the truth, the other lied about the incident and MoE policies, sadly it seems the liar is the one were still left with judging by this episode.
The fact that other people just ignore the incompetence is probably worse than the decisions being made, its truely pathetic, and anyone thats happy to just sit back and allow an innocent team to be punished for what appears to be sod all, while the one that actually gets away scott free is the reason the other team got penalised should be ashamed of themselves.
Dave, considering your team were incorrectly identified as breaking the rules, and thankfully had it rectified, i'd have expected better than a 'i couldnt care less anymore' attitude seeing as you were on the end of the exact same thing. If everyone else just sat back and said 'aint my problem' how would you feel??
Cowards, cheats and liars, the bloody lot of you! Dont give a damn unless someones sh***ing on you, otherwise everyone else can FO. Must all be real proud of yourselves.
Im certanly not saying I couldn't care less, Im very interested in the outcome, however I don't see apealing about being penalised for chatting when we did not, quite the same as actually chatting and appealing that its not against the rules or we didn't know or that others got away without penalty.
I do not know about the "westhill incident" and cannot comment.
SD.
Paul, please refrain from calling me a liar. I can take quite a bit of criticism, but I do have my limits as well.
SparkyDave: the "Westhill Incident" was a startcrash which Mercury got penalized for, a penalty Paul did not agree with.
SparkyDave: the "Westhill Incident" was a startcrash which Mercury got penalized for, a penalty Paul did not agree with.
It wasn't directly the penalty he didn't agree with, it was the fact that there was more breaking of the rules by other teams which they got away with.
Deja Vu.
Deja Vu.
You cant even tell the truth in the very post that you ask me to refrain from calling you a liar can you!!
Of course it was JUST about what happened with the mercury car, it has got nothing to do with the fact that the pole sitting car wasnt following the speed limit, he was going too fast, then brake excessively (15mph isnt 48mph!!), then went back well over the speed limit again, and then decided to type 'wtf!!!' all in a matter of about 6 seconds. Thats 3 counts of breaking the rules.
Because of all the stopping and starting, before and after the green flag message had been given his slamming on the brakes while the other cars behind were accelerating on a green flag situation, he caused the cars to bunch up and slam on their brakes when they're half way down the start straight in full race conditions. Bawbag made a move and as he was already making that move the car infront was forced to slam on the brakes and Bawbag was given 0.75sec in which to apparently timewarp back, move the right instead of left, and avoid the stupid driver who'd broken 3 rules and was driving wrecklessly. Bawbag hit the Ocrana car i think it was, it was impossible for him to react to this, but not in the eyes of 1 person, apparently he's expected to know that the move he was about to take would end in other cars slamming on their brakes down a straight, and he was judged to have caused a multiple car pile-up.
Now, if bawbag was at fault, give him a penalty, ive watched the footage over and over, and if you can honestly say that was the right decision, that bawbags actions were the cause of that incident, then you really shouldnt be admining any series!
For Bawbag to avoid that incident, he'd have needed to have known what was going to happen, he made a move which was perfectly safe, far safer than moving onto the inside line 3 abrest for a fast right hander, that or well maybe the lead car could have not slammed on the brakes?? Crazy logic i know, instead you blamed the person who was last in the chain of events, had no chance to do anything about it and was sh*t on by the lead cars actions, the penalty decision, and even on the 3 rules broke by that lead car.
Still, right or wrong, that was your decision theres little that can be done about that. I know you cant sit there and spend half an hour going over the same clip from half a dozen angles, and if im being honest i think you've watched the clip again and seen the whole thing properly and i'd hope you'd judge it differently if you could, but whatever, we took the penalty and right or wrong decision he made contact which created a pile-up and that ruined a few teams starts, but you know damn well, as you have all along that isnt where my gripe lies.
My biggest issue is the fact that you went on a witchhunt and completely missed 3 incidents from the Pole sitting car, how exactly can you say you watched that incident PROPERLY if you cant even notice someone else accelerating to about 70-80mpr before the green light, thats 150% of the speed limit, slowing down to 15mph AFTER the green light message, a THIRD of the speed limit, and even CHATTING during the race!?? Its not something you easily miss, it does come up right there on your screen and makes a noise which is typically a pretty good indication.
Why do i call *one of you* a liar (you'll note from my post earlier i never called YOU a liar, just that one of you was, and judging by the fact that your shying away from admitting incompetence that it wouldnt suprise me if it was you) because despite these issues being highlighted to you just as was the case with this chatting rule earlier today, you just hide and pretend it didnt happen, ignore the fact that you missed something because you were too busy going about your little witchunt trying to find someone to blame it all on and still managed to miss THREE cases of rule breaking that are blatently obvious to everyone else! A couple of months later you lied about the whole incident, just as your partly doing by claiming this is all about a disagreement in a penalty awarded against us, one of you 2 lied about it and the other one at the same time posted the truth, and those posts were quickly deleted, ever so conveniently, pitty you cant delete email notifications from my mailbox though isnt it!
Phil, if you get things wrong, its only human, but pretending you havent and just ignoring the fact just makes the whole thing a damn joke. You've completely ignored the fact that someone has been wrongly punished while another team has got away with nothing knowing damn well they've broke these rules, just as you did back after the Westhill round. People are trying to highlight mistakes, and your just ignoring them, how is that fair to everyone?? Its not just you, its everyone else in this series by the looks of it, because nobody else is willing to speak up and point out whats right and whats wrong, apparently they'd all rather let the cheating and injustice go on, probably because it benefits them. Unfortunately i'd rather have a fair race, so for the time being at least you'll have to put up with me highlighting anything that i feel is incorrect, or would everyone rather we ignored the rules, made everything up as we go along and just do what the heck we all feel like doing? I keep hearing people come out with 'Rules are rules', yeah, damn right they are, and they're being broken and people only seem interested in speaking up if it involves them, anyone else and its their tough luck and honestly that just stinks!
All i can say is your lucky our drivers did well today, think how 'pleasant' i'd be otherwise
If you'd be any more pleasant, I wouldn't have it, quite simple.
Without going into judging the event, how did I not tell the truth by stating that there was a startcrash which Mercury got penalized for?
1. There was a startcrash, right or wrong? Right.
2. Mercury got a penalty, right or wrong? Right.
Anything else, I won't go over again, it has been discussed before to dead's end and it will not move us forward. We have reacted accordingly by introducing n00b start to minimize mistakes, a tool we unfortunately cannot use atm because it doesn't work and the coder doesnt have the time to adapt it to the new patches. Otherwise it would be in use this season as well.
And to say there was no rule in qualifying: even if you took the standpoint there was no rule before qualifying, then it was instated at the very moment I posted it on the server. Quite simple. Folks didn't act accordingly, they get punished. Don't use block messages, we NEED to be able to communicate to the drivers from admin side. That has always been the case, we have told for instance drivers to pull into the pits by using the communications before. We do not have radio functions to every team/driver, so we simply need drivers not to block messages, as this case quite clearly showed.
And now can we end this? It's spoiling the excitement the drivers showed last night in the IRC channel and I actually like to end a race on a good note and not going over year old stuff over and over again.
Without going into judging the event, how did I not tell the truth by stating that there was a startcrash which Mercury got penalized for?
1. There was a startcrash, right or wrong? Right.
2. Mercury got a penalty, right or wrong? Right.
Anything else, I won't go over again, it has been discussed before to dead's end and it will not move us forward. We have reacted accordingly by introducing n00b start to minimize mistakes, a tool we unfortunately cannot use atm because it doesn't work and the coder doesnt have the time to adapt it to the new patches. Otherwise it would be in use this season as well.
And to say there was no rule in qualifying: even if you took the standpoint there was no rule before qualifying, then it was instated at the very moment I posted it on the server. Quite simple. Folks didn't act accordingly, they get punished. Don't use block messages, we NEED to be able to communicate to the drivers from admin side. That has always been the case, we have told for instance drivers to pull into the pits by using the communications before. We do not have radio functions to every team/driver, so we simply need drivers not to block messages, as this case quite clearly showed.
And now can we end this? It's spoiling the excitement the drivers showed last night in the IRC channel and I actually like to end a race on a good note and not going over year old stuff over and over again.
If I may say something. I still think it's unfair and not necessary to penalize the drivers so much, or at all. Just for typing a chat message in qual, it wasn't even in race.
I think it would be great if chatting during qual would be ok. After all, it is possible to use the "-" button to block messages. If an admin has an important message he should use "/msg". This doesn't reduce the lag when someone leaves the pits, but you can block chatting at least..
I think it would be great if chatting during qual would be ok. After all, it is possible to use the "-" button to block messages. If an admin has an important message he should use "/msg". This doesn't reduce the lag when someone leaves the pits, but you can block chatting at least..
Better still, /rcm can be directed at one person right?
As for the qualifying, there we 2 sessions, in the 2nd session we gained a penalty on our best time, but just taking away a team fastest time of the session is enough of a penalty IMO, 1 or 2 tenths could easily be a couple of positions.
Btw, First racing done there fastest time in the session which they didn't receive a penalty, so surely they should have gotten away with the penalty in the second qualification as it should only have been implied on there best time of session 2?
As for the qualifying, there we 2 sessions, in the 2nd session we gained a penalty on our best time, but just taking away a team fastest time of the session is enough of a penalty IMO, 1 or 2 tenths could easily be a couple of positions.
Btw, First racing done there fastest time in the session which they didn't receive a penalty, so surely they should have gotten away with the penalty in the second qualification as it should only have been implied on there best time of session 2?
Hoellsen:
Your pretty much doing it again, just as you always do, you shift blame and pretend things dont happen!
1) Correct, Never said differently
2) Correct, Never said differently, but IMO the if 1 person was to be penalised, fact is it shouldnt have been our car. Saying otherwise means you've got problems.
your turn:
3) The penalty was justified as being the SOLE and MAIN reason there was a multi-car pile-up? (I use 'sole' and 'main' because bawbag was the only person punished, so by your call must have been the only one doing something worthy of penalising) Right, Wrong or Pretend it didnt happen.
4) You missed the Pole sitter break THREE rules because all you cared about was finding someone to assign total blame. Doing 70-80mph in a 48mph section, slowing down to 15-18mph under a green flag situation, and typing messages during race conditions. Right, Wrong or Pretend it didnt happen.
Anything that involves questioning your decisions you wont go into full stop, you refuse to take responsibility for bad decisions. Do i expect you to reverse our penalty, no, but you could at least have the balls to review it and say you got the damn thing wrong because you didnt have the time to check and you just based the penalty on what saw in 1 run. If you'd have seen the replay from Bawbags POV you'd know he moved before others started slamming on braked down the straight. He was nothing but the last man in a chain of forced events by 1 person paying NO attention because he was too busy trying to type 'wtf!!!!' (i recall there was a typo, meaning it was hand typed not a keybind!) to have noticed the race was underway.
I just dont know how the hell you can sit there and justify missing those 3 things in the opening TEN seconds of a race, if that! What exactly are you doing if you cant spot the lead car slamming on his brakes during a green flag!?!? Honestly, do you even bother watching or do you take some pleasure out of getting things wrong?
Your also going over things i've already said a dozen times I have NO PROBLEM WITH, if chatting in qual is a rule (an unwriten one i might add!) then penalise people, but penalise EVERYONE not just those after you've issued a warning, apparently it was a rule before the warning so those people were braking the rules then, but some appear to have got away unpunished because you dont appear to have taken the time to check what people have said to you.
How can you end this??
If you dont know that then why the hell are you running this series!? Be fair, Be honest, make an effort to ensure things are fair, and dont go hiding and pretend things didnt happen when you sh*t on someone for doing nothing wrong or for being in the wrong place at the wrong time.
As for not wanting to go over year old stuff, I was quite happy to leave it at 'Westhill incident' because you know EXACTLY what im talking about, but YOU as per usual decide to be deceitful (thats a fancy way of saying lie) to people when they ask what that means, you instantly start passing the incident off as being something we did wrong, of course you didnt do anything wrong did you, Hoellsen is never wrong, never ignores blatent braking of rules, and certainly doesnt go hiding and pretend these things never happens, and isnt part of a 2 man team one of which purposely lied to me about the incident a few months later claiming there was absolutely no other rules broken while the other guy came straight out and admitted sometime after the race you both discussed the incidents!
The fact that you get decisions wrong, that i can live with, the fact that you miss stuff thats pointed out to you with about 12hrs in which you can act on it, but dont, i can live with, but the fact that you get all of that wrong and when brought up you go hidding and pretend it didnt happen is just an insult to the people involved.
Oh, also, im sure half the GT2 class would like to thank you for the yellow flag messages you caused which look to have covered up their 'Green Flag' message which would explain why they just sat there and watched the other half of the GT2 pack fly right past them. Certainly saved us fighting for the 3 places we took in the blink of an eye.
Its caused distractions in the past too, why you cant just shift+s out of there at the pit entry i'll never know.
Your pretty much doing it again, just as you always do, you shift blame and pretend things dont happen!
1) Correct, Never said differently
2) Correct, Never said differently, but IMO the if 1 person was to be penalised, fact is it shouldnt have been our car. Saying otherwise means you've got problems.
your turn:
3) The penalty was justified as being the SOLE and MAIN reason there was a multi-car pile-up? (I use 'sole' and 'main' because bawbag was the only person punished, so by your call must have been the only one doing something worthy of penalising) Right, Wrong or Pretend it didnt happen.
4) You missed the Pole sitter break THREE rules because all you cared about was finding someone to assign total blame. Doing 70-80mph in a 48mph section, slowing down to 15-18mph under a green flag situation, and typing messages during race conditions. Right, Wrong or Pretend it didnt happen.
Anything that involves questioning your decisions you wont go into full stop, you refuse to take responsibility for bad decisions. Do i expect you to reverse our penalty, no, but you could at least have the balls to review it and say you got the damn thing wrong because you didnt have the time to check and you just based the penalty on what saw in 1 run. If you'd have seen the replay from Bawbags POV you'd know he moved before others started slamming on braked down the straight. He was nothing but the last man in a chain of forced events by 1 person paying NO attention because he was too busy trying to type 'wtf!!!!' (i recall there was a typo, meaning it was hand typed not a keybind!) to have noticed the race was underway.
I just dont know how the hell you can sit there and justify missing those 3 things in the opening TEN seconds of a race, if that! What exactly are you doing if you cant spot the lead car slamming on his brakes during a green flag!?!? Honestly, do you even bother watching or do you take some pleasure out of getting things wrong?
Your also going over things i've already said a dozen times I have NO PROBLEM WITH, if chatting in qual is a rule (an unwriten one i might add!) then penalise people, but penalise EVERYONE not just those after you've issued a warning, apparently it was a rule before the warning so those people were braking the rules then, but some appear to have got away unpunished because you dont appear to have taken the time to check what people have said to you.
How can you end this??
If you dont know that then why the hell are you running this series!? Be fair, Be honest, make an effort to ensure things are fair, and dont go hiding and pretend things didnt happen when you sh*t on someone for doing nothing wrong or for being in the wrong place at the wrong time.
As for not wanting to go over year old stuff, I was quite happy to leave it at 'Westhill incident' because you know EXACTLY what im talking about, but YOU as per usual decide to be deceitful (thats a fancy way of saying lie) to people when they ask what that means, you instantly start passing the incident off as being something we did wrong, of course you didnt do anything wrong did you, Hoellsen is never wrong, never ignores blatent braking of rules, and certainly doesnt go hiding and pretend these things never happens, and isnt part of a 2 man team one of which purposely lied to me about the incident a few months later claiming there was absolutely no other rules broken while the other guy came straight out and admitted sometime after the race you both discussed the incidents!
The fact that you get decisions wrong, that i can live with, the fact that you miss stuff thats pointed out to you with about 12hrs in which you can act on it, but dont, i can live with, but the fact that you get all of that wrong and when brought up you go hidding and pretend it didnt happen is just an insult to the people involved.
Oh, also, im sure half the GT2 class would like to thank you for the yellow flag messages you caused which look to have covered up their 'Green Flag' message which would explain why they just sat there and watched the other half of the GT2 pack fly right past them. Certainly saved us fighting for the 3 places we took in the blink of an eye.
Its caused distractions in the past too, why you cant just shift+s out of there at the pit entry i'll never know.
wow...we should collect a huge drama novel from pauls BS
For people to enjoy. Most of them do, either because or despite of me. I enjoy doing it, even though I work 6 days a week atm and have to take time off to run days like yesterday. So I do take the liberty to ignore stuff which was discussed a year ago.
I'll leave it at that. Feel free to write more stuff, don't expect me to read or comment it. The last paragraph I will take into consideration, btw, so just that you don't think I ignore everything you say.
I'm not saying that I agree with the admins decisons all the time (or how some stuff is handled), but as in any other sport the referee makes the final decision. End of discussion.
It's not ok to bash the admins every time you think a wrong decision has been made by bringing up stuff that has been discussed to death before.
If you don't agree how this league is run or organized, noone forces you to take part.
If you think you can do better: http://www.lfsforum.net/showthread.php?t=26957
It's not ok to bash the admins every time you think a wrong decision has been made by bringing up stuff that has been discussed to death before.
If you don't agree how this league is run or organized, noone forces you to take part.
If you think you can do better: http://www.lfsforum.net/showthread.php?t=26957
Very disapointing thread
Please take a small break, think about the need of those large postings (that would never read anyone completely till the end) and the respect of other peoples mention. It`s a cup, with a great amount of work for the admins, who have spend the only free hours of their busy week for the administration.
Instead of hanging around on small rules, that should be explained for kids in the age of three years, why dont all respect it, like it was in the last two seasons? There was no problem with protests and chatting ingame. Because everyone respects it and take care. Now some make great problems out of small ones... very disapointing...
100% agree! I will support the admins in news and more, so they can concentrate more on other things.
Please take a small break, think about the need of those large postings (that would never read anyone completely till the end) and the respect of other peoples mention. It`s a cup, with a great amount of work for the admins, who have spend the only free hours of their busy week for the administration.
Instead of hanging around on small rules, that should be explained for kids in the age of three years, why dont all respect it, like it was in the last two seasons? There was no problem with protests and chatting ingame. Because everyone respects it and take care. Now some make great problems out of small ones... very disapointing...
100% agree! I will support the admins in news and more, so they can concentrate more on other things.
Agreed as well. No one agrees with admin decisions all of the time, but in the end it's the admins' series and you choose whether you want to participate in it or not. You can certainly lobby for change, but outright attacking the admins isn't the way to get it. If you really want change, join 'em.
...
Now thats an intelligent reply. How about a ban for this guy for the next race so he can chill out?
...
Now that's what I call a post who really leads the subject forward!
Personaly I'm very tired of what Paul writes, since he can't let things be, bringing up a year old issues.
So, I just wanted to support Mika and 3J's suggestion instead of moaning.
6h of South City Long: Penalties
(62 posts, started )
FGED GREDG RDFGDR GSFDG