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steering wheel "wiggle" at center
(23 posts, started )
steering wheel "wiggle" at center
I have a Logitech momo with FF. For the most part it works great.

When the wheel is centered, if I'm not holding on, it will wiggle back and forth (I assume it's because I have the FF set to 200% lol), but I like the feel of the force feedback.

Is there a way to get rid of this wiggle? Currently I let the game find the control (I don't run the Logitech profiler). Maybe I should try this?

Jeff
#2 - kompa
have you tried setting the wheel up according to LFS manual? i bet that'll get the wiggle out but you'll have to get used to the new feel - which you might find even better, eventually!

http://en.lfsmanual.net/wiki/Wheels
Nope, no way to get rid of it, other than reducing the FFB strength.
Quote from jscharpf :I have a Logitech momo with FF. For the most part it works great.

When the wheel is centered, if I'm not holding on, it will wiggle back and forth (I assume it's because I have the FF set to 200% lol), but I like the feel of the force feedback.

Is there a way to get rid of this wiggle? Currently I let the game find the control (I don't run the Logitech profiler). Maybe I should try this?

Jeff

Isnt your FFB reversed?
Simple answer no, you can't remove it.

It is all to do with the current ffb technology and the ffb not acting linear. I can never remember the exact reason, though there is some mention to it in the lfs wiki
Quote from marzman :Isnt your FFB reversed?

No, the wheels starts to oscillate because of the lag the FF motors have and because the steering wheel itself is pretty heavy and has a relatively high inertia when considering the tiny FF motors. Basically the wheel goes "full force right", then reaches the centre (no FF), overshoots it, the wheel goes "full force left", reaches centre, overshoots it, ...
If its only near the center that it wiggles then there is a way to fix it, but the devs haven't implemented this nice feature. First props to thier binding system it is one of the best there is. Second from the OP I had the idea it might be you need a deadzone area, which basically says, if the wheel is within this range (Center +/- this deadzone value) then you are not turning the wheel at all. The only thing the binding system lacks is the ability to edit this deadzone range.

From the other posts, it sounds like a problem with FFB, and I don't have that wheel so I don't really know if this would fix this particular problem - it would fix some other controllers though. I hope this deadzone range gets to the devs as there is another thread I have posted in about it...
Sorry, but using deadzone is a terrible terrible idea to "solve" the oscillation problems. You could just turn of the force feedback completely then, which is about equally as much of a "solution" as adding a deadzone adjustment. And all the software anti-oscillation techniques you talk about are equally inefficient, as they mostly artificially weaken the FFB strength around the centre to circumvent the problem.

As I said, the problem lies in the wheel's hardware and any software attempt to fix it just means that you alter the forces that act on the virtual steering column, thus fudging with the very core of what makes LFS force feedback so good in the first place. If you want to use high FFB strength, then you'll just have to deal with the oscillation by not letting go of the wheel.
Quote from AndroidXP :Sorry, but using deadzone is a terrible terrible idea to "solve" the oscillation problems. You could just turn of the force feedback completely then, which is about equally as much of a "solution" as adding a deadzone adjustment.

I wasn't suggesting that we use a deadzone range to fix the "oscillation" which is why at the end of my post I stated that the rest of the thread had a different take on "wiggle" then I did. I mean, if the steering input is near the center, and being held fairly straight then my deadzone fix is what needs to be implemented; however if the problem is due to FFB as the rest of this thread is taking it to be, (and should be since I *just* scrolled to re-read the OP...) then my idea won't and didn't help the problem... Sorry, I missed the 'FFB' at the begining of the post, and yea . . .

Hope you get it fixed anyways.
can you overclock the motors? or will they burn?
Do you feel special when riding the short bus to school every morning?
Hey my son rides the short bus!

He's autistic.. so he gets the special bus.. but he's a genious lol...just has a hard time with social skills...

Getting back to the original question. Thanks for all of the reponses. I certainly understand about the response, etc.. In NR2003, you can tweak it to eliminate this, but it does add a bit of "dead" space which can be deadly if you don't understand it.

I'm willing to live with it.. since the rest of the game performs flawlessly on my mediocre system, I really have no right to complain. This game is alot of fun, it was easy to set up, and it has a great "feel". I've got all my graphics maxed.. and I have no issues with FRs..

Thanks again for the responses!

Jeff
#13 - Jakg
Quote from AndroidXP :Do you feel special when riding the short bus to school every morning?

Call me a n00b, but the "short bus"?

I think this is a US term we don't get over here.
Quote from jscharpf :When the wheel is centered, if I'm not holding on, it will wiggle back and forth (I assume it's because I have the FF set to 200% lol), but I like the feel of the force feedback.

i might be pointing out the obvious here but ... dont take your hands off then

on a more serious note yes it is a flaw but as bb pointed out its the best solution there is ... and unless you do something you shouldnt in a race (like driving no handed) you wont notice it anyway

Quote from Jakg :Call me a n00b, but the "short bus"?

I think this is a US term we don't get over here.

google ftw (dont look at the first few links leading to imdb ... youre not old enough for those yet)
Quote from Greboth :Simple answer no, you can't remove it.

It is all to do with the current ffb technology and the ffb not acting linear. I can never remember the exact reason, though there is some mention to it in the lfs wiki

This is why i dont want to get the G25

But rather the NEXT logitech wheel that comes out!
[quote=Shotglass;547402]i might be pointing out the obvious here but ... dont take your hands off then
quote]

lol you got me there!
Quote from Mako. :This is why i dont want to get the G25

But rather the NEXT logitech wheel that comes out!

AFAIK the momo does it, my dfp did it (sold it) and and now my g25 does it although the g25 is better and is only noticable at high ffb, like the OP at 200%. Maybe they will fix it for the next one though.
My old wingman thingy had this a lot, just going down the straight with a wobbly wheel. I tried fiddling with the degree of motion and I recall solving it. You could try that. Then again, I don't have it set to 200% FFB
Setting FFB at 200% induces a lot of clipping so that's never a good idea if you wish to know what's going on with the road.
I'd also suggest running profiler as it sets your wheel correctly.

Contrary to most suggestions, I run 49% in profiler and 90%-100% in LFS (only need less then 100% in GTR's).
This has a dual purpose for me.
First, it feels much more natural as well as precise. I can feel much more detail then I could with profiler on 104% and LFS at whatever. Slides are cought easier as well.
Another reason is that with this, the wheel feels like it applies less FF the closer you are to the center thus almost eleminating the wobble as well as the wiggle spot (the annoying no FF spot close to center).
Give it a shot and see if you grow to like it.
I'm using a DFP btw (latest release bought not even 3 months ago)
Quote from gohfeld23 :Contrary to most suggestions, I run 49% in profiler and 90%-100% in LFS (only need less then 100% in GTR's). I'm using a DFP btw.

Granted, these suggestions you speak of are made on behalf of the G25, not the DFP, so your settings might work better for DFP users.

I can only say that with the G25 there was a very noticeable difference between 50% LFS - 100% profiler and 100% LFS - 50% profiler, with the latter being really awful and sort of dampened, missing a lot of detail. The whole steering felt washed out and you could barely make out kerb rattle, even when driving over most notoriously bumpy and feelable kerbs found in LFS.

The often mentioned 105% for the profiler stem from the fact, that at least the G25 drivers artificially reduce the forces at the centre to eliminate this wobble, with the negative effect of also eliminating all detail in the road. Going slightly over 100% seems to rectify these issues, as long as you don't overdo it. For example I'm able to feel the bumpy road of Fern Bay in some cars, while beforehand it felt completely smooth. However, 150% is extremely exaggerating the forces at the centre, up to a point where it stops being funny. The slightest forces already cause the wheel to produce maximum force in one direction, and it's just ridiculous overall. An example? You stand completely still on the road, yet the wheel rattles left and right. The cause? Your engine. The movement of the cylinders causes the car body to wiggle left and right ever so slightly, causing a compression in the suspension, producing a tiny tiny steering force due to the suspension geometry, which is then huuuuuuugely exaggerated by the Logitech drivers. Moral of the story? Don't use 150% in the profiler
lfs has good force feedback? Maybe there's a problem with my xbox 360 controller driver...
Yes it has

Though the (I think) missing inclusion of self aligning torque into the FF/physics makes it a bit bland at times in terms of missing detail in certain situations, but the general FF regarding weight transfer and bigger bumps is excellent.
Quote from flymike91 :lfs has good force feedback? Maybe there's a problem with my xbox 360 controller driver...

Actual force feedback, yes. For steering wheels. Not vibration effects for gamepads.

steering wheel "wiggle" at center
(23 posts, started )
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