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McLaren await their fate
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McLaren await their fate
http://www.formula1.com/news/headlines/2007/7/6532.html

McLaren await their fate in Paris

McLaren will appear at an extraordinary meeting of the FIA World Motor Sport Council meeting in Paris on Thursday morning to answer charges relating to the alleged possession of confidential technical data belonging to rivals Ferrari.

The British team, currently atop both the drivers’ and constructors’ standings, are accused of breaching Article 151c of the International Sporting Code. If found guilty they could have points docked or even be disqualified from the championship.
Article 151c relates to “any fraudulent conduct, or any act prejudicial to the interests of any competition, or to the interests of motor sport generally”. The charges stem from claims that McLaren’s chief designer Mike Coughlan, currently suspended by the team, held almost 800 pages of Ferrari documentation - enough to design, engineer, build, check, test, develop and/or run a 2007 Ferrari Formula One car.

McLaren have maintained throughout the affair that prior to Coughlan’s suspension no other member of the team was aware of the material, and have insisted that no Ferrari information has at any stage been used in the development of their 2007 car.

“McLaren looks forward to having the opportunity to present the complete and accurate picture of events in the appropriate forum,” said the team, after admitting their disappointment at being called before the FIA.

If the Council does accept McLaren’s defence it will then be faced with the unenviable task of deciding whether the team should be held accountable for the actions of one individual. Ferrari will be present to witness the outcome, though it is not clear whether they will be presenting evidence to the hearing.

Whatever the result, the affair is likely to rumble on for some time to come. Coughlan has submitted an affidavit detailing his version of events, but, along with his wife, remains the subject of a London High Court action by Ferrari over the materials allegedly found in his possession.

And then there is the question of sacked Ferrari engineer Nigel Stepney, a former colleague of Coughlan’s. Stepney was dismissed following allegations of theft and also remains the subject of legal proceedings by the Italian team. The Englishman has protested his innocence and denies he was the source of the now infamous 780-page dossier.

For most Formula One fans, of course, the biggest question mark is over the 2008 championship. McLaren’s drivers, Lewis Hamilton and Fernando Alonso, are separated by just two points at the top of the standings, with Ferrari counterparts Felipe Massa and Kimi Raikkonen still very much in the running, both within 18 points of the lead.

In fact, with the current pace of the McLaren and the Ferrari so evenly-matched, it looks set to become one of the most keenly-contested title fights in years - and whatever decision the Council comes to could have a huge impact on its outcome.
Whatever happens it will be the right course of action, but i do hope mclaren get away free so we can continue this awesome season.
Quote from Mustafur :Whatever happens it will be the right course of action...

Given the FIA's history, I admire your confidence...
Whatever the outcome is it is the outcome. There seems to be speculation and allegations everywhere concerning this. At one time it was suggested Honda and other teams might be involved too. If it is true then it is a shame that McLaren has resorted to such underhand tactics, I just hope that whatever the outcome it does not effects the drivers championship or throw a shadow over the season.
#6 - DeKo
Only problem was that it wasnt actually mclaren. It was just the 1 div who thought it would be a good idea, as far as most people know most of mclaren, ron dennis and so on, didnt have a clue this was going on.
I'm saying Ferrari set all this up because McLaren are scorching this year and with a coloured kid behind the wheel. Hope it all blows up in Ferrari's face.
It certainly is an impressive turn-around Mclaren has had this year. Pretty dismal last year.

It is a shame that no matter the outcome, the championship will be tarnished in some way this year. LH's impressive rookie season as well.

That said, glad to see there is a movement to bring collussion between the teams out into the open.
Quote from P5YcHoM4N :I'm saying Ferrari set all this up because McLaren are scorching this year and with a coloured kid behind the wheel. Hope it all blows up in Ferrari's face.

So you think this is a raciallly-motivated industrial espionage case? ROFL.
Quote from P5YcHoM4N :I'm saying Ferrari set all this up because McLaren are scorching this year and with a coloured kid behind the wheel. Hope it all blows up in Ferrari's face.

You should get a better brain to mouth filter, cause whats coming out of it now is pure crap
Quote from mikey_G :You should get a better brain to mouth filter, cause whats coming out of it now is pure crap

Why is it anymore possible that McLaren, or an employee of McLaren, recieved a 800 page document about Ferrari than it is that Ferrari have made false allegations for a personal gain. Maybe McLaren did receive the document, maybe not. Maybe Ferrari are using dirty underhand tactics, maybe not.
Quote from Greboth :Why is it anymore possible that McLaren, or an employee of McLaren, recieved a 800 page document about Ferrari than it is that Ferrari have made false allegations for a personal gain. Maybe McLaren did receive the document, maybe not. Maybe Ferrari are using dirty underhand tactics, maybe not.

ok, it's because he's black....
Yeah, that isn't the main point, it was just a side point, as racism still goes on. I'm still saying it was all a crock made up by Ferrari because they are losing. When MS was driving for them he turned into Dick Dastardly when they lost and cheated.
I sure hope they don't take driver points (No, Im not a member of the Church of Hamilton, nor an Alonso fan), teampoints doesnt matter so much to me, so they can take all if they want
Why (Clownpaint)?

If (and Only If) their cars contain the intellectual property of Ferrari, and that can be proven, they deserve to be thrown out of drivers and constructors.

Personally I doubt that the Ferrari info is in the Mclarens, or could be proven if it was. But If it was/is so, then they don't deserve the points they have won.
Quote from Greboth :Why is it anymore possible that McLaren, or an employee of McLaren, recieved a 800 page document about Ferrari than it is that Ferrari have made false allegations for a personal gain. Maybe McLaren did receive the document, maybe not. Maybe Ferrari are using dirty underhand tactics, maybe not.

Wasn't it widely known that McLaren DID have the document in question.

Anyway, it doesn't matter now as it's all be sorted out.
Tbh, I'd like Mclaren to stay, that doesn't necessarily mean that I'm a Mclaren man, always have been a Ferrari man but at the end of the day, each team has their dirty sh*t that the public doesn't know about and sometimes, just a bit of it released. I dunno exactly what happened with Stepney but from what I've read, Ferrari used him as their fall guy in the whole special magic white powder that they used in their cars at Monaco. So really, each side has their dirty intentions or doings, Ferrari might've used Stepney as a fall guy and then Mclaren might've accessed Ferrari's documents of their 2007 car so we can't know which team is being honest.
#19 - Gunn
Quote from P5YcHoM4N :I'm saying Ferrari set all this up because McLaren are scorching this year and with a coloured kid behind the wheel. Hope it all blows up in Ferrari's face.

You should get some help.
Quote :“The WMSC is satisfied that Vodafone McLaren Mercedes was in possession of confidential Ferrari information and is therefore in breach of article 151c of the International Sporting Code,"

How come there is no punishment when they are found guilty and breaking a rule?


Just a little note:
I wouldn't have problem at all if McLaren had been found innocent. But now when they are found guilty of possession, and also breaking a rule (151c), and get no punishment - that is what is my problem.
Quote from DanneDA :How come there is no punishment when they are found guilty and breaking a rule?


Just a little note:
I wouldn't have problem at all if McLaren had been found innocent. But now when they are found guilty of possession, and also breaking a rule (151c), and get no punishment - that is what is my problem.

Because there is no evidence to prove they used the information. If any comes up they will be punished.
Quote from srdsprinter :It certainly is an impressive turn-around Mclaren has had this year. Pretty dismal last year.

Last year the Mclaren was the fastest car by quite some way, the problem was it had a habit of blowing up. Mclaren mostly worked on improving reliability for 2007, since they already had the speed advantage to work with. I seriously doubt that Mclaren used any Ferrari information to improve their reliability, given that this years Ferrari is more like last years Mclaren, fast when it works but blows up too much.

Also they say they will not punish Mclaren 'for now' which may mean an end of season penalty of some kind. But like P5YcHoM4N said, they may be waiting for more evidence to surface. I am glad to see egg on Ferraris face after all the leaks to the media they made trying to damage Mclarens image.
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(Tigershark) DELETED by Tigershark
Quote from ATC Quicksilver :this years Ferrari is more like last years Mclaren, fast when it works but blows up too much.

Thats quite an exaggeration, dont you think? . Ferrari have only had 2 retirements this year due to technical problems, Massa's retirement at Canada was due to a black flag which is Massa's fault. Mclaren's car had terrible reliability over the years, only this year, they finally understood the quote "to finish first, first you have to finish". Tbh, I have no idea where you got the idea that Mclaren had the best car last year because Ferrari and Renault were waay ahead of everyone else. Mclaren had some lucky days but often, they ended in retirement.
Quote :The WMSC is satisfied that Vodafone McLaren Mercedes was in possession of confidential Ferrari information and is therefore in breach of article 151c of the International Sporting Code

OK, I can steal £10000000.99 from the bank, but it's OK if I don't use it?

hmmmmm

I don't get the FIA's decision if they make statements like above.

Quote :The WMSC is satisfied that an employee of Vodafone McLaren Mercedes was in possession of confidential Ferrari information and is therefore in breach of article 151c of the International Sporting Code

If they were to say the above then their action would make sense, i.e. awaiting the verdict from the individual cases in the UK and Italy.
Ferrari Response:
Quote from Ferrari :
Ferrari notes that Vodafone McLaren Mercedes has been found guilty by the FIA World Council.

It therefore finds it incomprehensible that violating the fundamental principle of sporting honesty does not have, as a logical and inevitable consequence, the application of a sanction. Today’s decision legitimises dishonest behaviour in Formula 1 and sets a very serious precedent.

In fact, the decision of the World Council signifies that possession, knowledge at the very highest level and use of highly confidential information acquired in an illicit manner and the acquiring of confidential information over the course of several months, represent violations that do not carry any punishment. The fact that Vodafone McLaren Mercedes was in possession of such information was discovered totally by accident and, but for this, the team would continue to have it. This is all the more serious as it has occurred in a sport like Formula 1 in which small details make all the difference.

Ferrari feels this is highly prejudicial to the credibility of the sport. It will continue with the legal action already under way within the Italian criminal justice system and in the civil court in England.


McLaren await their fate
(61 posts, started )
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