While not completely understanding one side of the argument, I'm going to post anyway; surely an internet first? I guess what I don't understand is how it's "not fair" to not be able to put your car back on its wheels if you roll it. You flipped your car - you're out of the race. How are those not reasonable - and fair - consequences?

So, suppose you want to have a server where, heck, roll your car - it's alright, you can reset! You have that option. But why exactly would you want to be able to put your car back on it's wheels and retain the damage? I mean sure, sometimes you end up on your roof but your car's still in ok shape. If you want to be able to continue driving after you overturned your vehicle why do you also want your car to still be f-d up?

On racing servers I prefer reset=off, because if someone flips their car I don't think it's fair for them to continue racing - You crashed, game over, insert coin to continue. However, I don't agree with a complete removal of the reset function because, sure, sometimes it's fun to screw around offline or whatever and rocket over FE chicanes, see what happens, and continue on. I just don't get the attraction of a non-repair reset. Of course, I don't understand the whole cruise thing whatsoever either, if that has anything to do with it.

Quote from Kostek :

As some of ppl above - this is a racing, not cruising sim.

But I also agree, that there could be 3 options for canreset (no / yes, without repair / yes and repair).

Serious racing servers will remain with canreset set to NO, the rest will be happy too.

Yes, but they won't (well, some would)... Taking the old reset behaviour away is FORCING us to cope with the new system... Too big would be the convenience of not changing anything... Remember the big affair when Scawen changed the shortcuts for pitting and spectating? People got used to it and demanded it changed back just for their convenience...

Quote from bbman :

Taking the old reset behavior away is FORCING us to cope with the new system...

I believe this is exactly the whole point in the reset being changed like it is. Not only does LFS want to be a racing simulator as opposed to a cruising/drift simulator, but it wants to be a serious racing simulator. Forcing servers to remove the reset option this way pushes LFS further towards the serious aspect.

Yes, it's a shame about the reset option changing for the cruise/drift servers. I have nothing against them at all. I ran on the cruise server for quite a while as I said earlier. But it's just the fact that you are using a software for something other than what it's being developed for, you can not expect development to focus on what you are using it for.

Quote from Sketchyrollin564 :

So now, if your flipped, and your on the last lap, and your winning, what do you do, just go back to the pits and exit so you can start from lap 1 again? i dont think its a fair thing.

An in real life if you flipped on your last lap and you were winning you get a DID NOT FINISH and your race is over. There is NO reset IRL.

The change is to make people care if they crash. The new reset & repair is for noobs and everyone else have to learn to not crash.

The same arguments can with tyre wear because people wanted to disable tyre wear so they could drift etc.

When the damage model gets better it will give even more reasons for not being able to finish a race.

The new crash and your race is over is the BEST addition to LFS in a long time.

No resets at all would improve the standard of driving in LFS overnight. People might actually start to use their brains a little bit if there were consequences for screwing up. That's why i love playing nKPro in full mode.

Scrapping resets altogether and improving the damage model would take LFS to the next level imo.

Hardcore racing FTW!

I organized UFR race event yesterday on patchX.
Replay
http://58.158.161.236/~ktaka/replay/UF1C4_4_Race.mpr

Everyone crushed and turned over...

I understand that "/canreset" command.

/canreset=yes
- Can car reset and fix car damage.
/canreset=no
- Can't car reset.(can't fix turned over)

I think one more option is need.
/canreset=notfix
- Can car reset, but not fix car damage.

Maybe this is very important.

This has been brought up recently by people who run Cruise servers.

http://www.lfsforum.net/showth ... mp;highlight=Cruise+Reset

Hope that helps. You're not the first to suggest it

Quote from Slopi :

This has been brought up recently by people who run Cruise servers.

http://www.lfsforum.net/showth ... mp;highlight=Cruise+Reset

Hope that helps. You're not the first to suggest it

Umm, My suggestion wasn't first.

Anyway UFR is very tippy.
That's problem too.

Quote from highbridge :

I organized UFR race event yesterday on patchX.
Replay
http://58.158.161.236/~ktaka/replay/UF1C4_4_Race.mpr

Everyone crushed and turned over...

I understand that "/canreset" command.

/canreset=yes
- Can car reset and fix car damage.
/canreset=no
- Can't car reset.(can't fix turned over)

I think one more option is need.
/canreset=notfix
- Can car reset, but not fix car damage.

Maybe this is very important.

Why not do a Race restart if everyone crashed... I don't like car resets myself since it doesn't teach people to be careful. They just plow on through a turn, reset, then keep going. If I crash I pit, and come out again if it was my fault or not. I've been punted off the track in lots of races by contact with others, or mistakes I have made. But thats racing. I've learned to brake in T1, let all the yahoo's and bozo's dive in way to fast, I watch them pass me only to slide of the track and I drive by gaining my position back and sometimes more.

LOL.... This is just a Preview of the $h*^Storm of whining thats going to come when we get a new damage model!

"I don't think its fair that i t-boned a barrier at 120mph and i broke my radiator!!11"

As Jay said earlier, you flip-you're done. I can only think of ONE instance in real life where a car was on it roof but managed to get back in the race*. (*rally exluded)

Oh my god..

I cant belive such a little thing could spark such a massive bitch session

Ok Im a Noob (obviously this is my first Post)
But if your doing serious racing and competition racing at that with the leagues then deffenatly No Resets like is now the standard.

This will take alot of the smashers out of the picture and force far more serious racing (though it will mean first courner crashes can be disarsterous)
I am still playing demo style and will be upgrading this week as I have seen that this game is for me. I still roll the car in blackwood (leading up to the streight) and this usually takes me out of the race with the damage it does to my car. I have only once "stupidly" reset with out looking on the map for racers coming behind me and took both of them out due to my rush to finish infront of them.

I also have never seen any of these Cruise Servers (as Im only in Demo) and do not understand the arguments. I also do not understand the argument about looseing your car and having to spend hours racing to get enugh money to get it back..(am I missing parts of the game here?)

That said if you have a problem with the current version, I have seen that small mods have been made in the past and you might wish to ask someone about a resetmod. But if you seriously want to reset with not damage on your car at all, play an arcarde game, as i dont think this is where Live for Speed is heading. Drifting also seems a big part of this game but I think that it is only due to the amount of detail in the set up and phyics engine being used allowing this type of driving.

For demo.. I would like the Reset and keep damage, as alot of people are still learning. Personally I spectate alot of faster drivers to try and pick up their racing lines, brakeing limits and etc. And while doing this I have seen drivers who i deffenatly wouldnt call Noobs (due to their lap times) roll a car due to being just a fraction off their line going into a courner.

I will be practiceing more this week and if i like the patch and where the game is headed I will be buying my S1 license and start learning some more car's, tracks and racing racing styles.

So, only 6 made it to the finish of a 10-lapper... What's the big deal? If you crash, then it's game over!

If you can't handle that tiny bit of realism, you should look for another game to play... Because this won't get any easier...

^ He's right, this game gets harder with every patch. Think about the false starts now implemented in patch X. It won't get any easier with the coming patches.

Look m8, you need to give Scawen a break. He just spend endless nights to polish an already great sim. As far as im concerned, Im VEERY HAPPYY with patch X and my S2 license. You have an opinion, do remember, the "city" courses you drive on.... are race tracks As for the resets and repair options, ive been at the BACK of 32 cars, in 2 races i was in top 5. There were plenty of cars crashing and taking each other out.
Final Note: I personally think this thread was a bit of a stretch, and alittle un-called for, reason why i say that, Scawen just worked his ARSE off with late nights fixing bugs.
This is not a bug, this is an opinion

Quote from Krammeh :

Utter...... insanity.

It is completely abismal for cruise servers.
As for the changes to the reset, its stupid. The repair, on multiplayer, are you CRAZY!?!

I really really hope that you solve this ya know. I think the reset option should have three options. Repair|reset car|disabled. Not just to two of it.

Everything else about the patch I like, just, remember us cruise servers?

I am the admin of LTC, I've spent 10hours converting it to patch X, in total. and it feels like a complete waste of time.

I would either want an update to patch X, so that it does not repair the cars on a reset, or an adition into the insim, so that I can detect if a car has been reset (so they can be charged).

Also, whats the "went the wrong route" thing?

I hope this can be sorted out, or there is going to be lots of very unhappy S2 licence holders. I am one of them, that is for sure!

I think the new reset is a great implement! Too become more realistic, it's a great feature for league racing. Cmon' This is a racing sim as others said, not a cruising sim. You will have to learn life doesn't have take 2. Drive more cautionly if you are in race.

I just can't believe, after all the testing we've been doing and all the advances that Scawen has made - AND enabled us server hosts to make - in the multiplayer environment for this patch.. that a SERVER OP would turn up AFTER the patch is released to EITHER complain about Patch X's content OR make new improvement suggestions for this very same patch.

It absolutely beggars belief.

100% agree, i think its personally offensive. And i would imagine Scawen would think so too

Quote from SamH :

I just can't believe, after all the testing we've been doing and all the advances that Scawen has made - AND enabled us server hosts to make - in the multiplayer environment for this patch.. that a SERVER OP would turn up AFTER the patch is released to EITHER complain about Patch X's content OR make new improvement suggestions for this very same patch.

It absolutely beggars belief.

Any kind of reset or repair without driving to pits is something I don't like to see, it would be unrealistic and realistic is always better. Also cars should get damaged much more and time to repair them should be realistic too, with possibility that some damage is not even possible to fix, naturally pitmenu would need some kind of options what to fix and what not.

If someone is not capable of racing without reset, maybe he should practise offline first so he can handle car properly before entering to track?

I can safely say that I can't recall what button does reset the car, haven't find any use for such feature, I can drive car to pits even after accident, damage level is so low that even if you roll the car it still is driveable and sometimes still you can end to podium, which I find again very unrealistic.

There are many arcade titles, Need for speed for example.

However I don't see why some people are always telling this is race sim, what is wrong with having more areas simulated, like driving in a city? As I have told before, it could be separated bit from main lfs branch so that at the end there would be different versions of LFS or at least menu inside a game where you can choose your cup of tea.
Maybe it would be again awful as MY LFS could be finished week or two later and I want it now, or something as childish

But maybe best to leave to Scawen and co to decide what they want and plan, it is better to enjoy what we have offered than whine from "enter different style to use product here"

Quote from boosterfire :

Actually, I don't think that even Need For Speed games would have an option to actually repair the car on reset. I don't really know why this has even be brought up. It's totally not realistic, so bad for cruising servers, and even worse for racing servers. I mean, you flipped the car; why would you have the right to continue with only that penalty? No way, sir, the car's dead, crawl your way back to pits at 10kph.

If I recall correctly Scawen said it's for the absolute newbies and practice servers (not with those words, obviously). As it's same as in offline you can use it if you make your own private online practice to get access to ingame LFSW features and such. Secondly, I think it's made that way so the majority of reasonable hosts would reject the reset option and go with the no-reset option, which is of course the right way to go.

Quote from SamH :

I just can't believe, after all the testing we've been doing and all the advances that Scawen has made - AND enabled us server hosts to make - in the multiplayer environment for this patch.. that a SERVER OP would turn up AFTER the patch is released to EITHER complain about Patch X's content OR make new improvement suggestions for this very same patch.

It absolutely beggars belief.

For some people patch X is the first upgrade since W and the first time they'll see the changes. You know, there *are* people who don't install test patches nor follow discussions on the test patch forum. I didn't do that for one and I'm sure there are many others. To be clear, I'm not supporting the author's whining, I like the reset system in X. But I don't quite see why it's hard to believe that some people will start complaining now.

Quote from AutoPilot :

You know, there *are* people who don't install test patches nor follow discussions on the test patch forum.

Fair point. But what the TS and others are basically asking for is changes to be made to LFS. To have influence on how this sim develops requires a certain amount of involvement in the community. Certainly when you're a server admin. If one choses not to, that's fine. But complaining afterwards is a no-go then.

Quote from jayhawk :

That is why Live For Speed is a racing simulator, to simulate real life elements.

OK, next steps:

Force people to wear a helmet while racing.
This is more realistic.
This will be controlled by web cam.

Turn the heater on even in summer because it's damn hot in a racing car.
More realistic.
This will be controlled by infra red sensors.

Disable chat.
You don't type while driving. Spectators can't even talk to drivers during a race.
This is not realistic.

Remove the Shift+S, now Shift+P option.
Cars don't magically vanish from the track.
This is not realistic.

Etc, etc...

Quote from Lotesdelere :

Remove the Shift+S, now Shift+P option.
Cars don't magically vanish from the track.
This is not realistic.

That is quite reasonable as cars do not vanish. Those others are just being too sarcastic, but that's actually possible.

Quote from AutoPilot :

For some people patch X is the first upgrade since W and the first time they'll see the changes. You know, there *are* people who don't install test patches nor follow discussions on the test patch forum. I didn't do that for one and I'm sure there are many others. To be clear, I'm not supporting the author's whining, I like the reset system in X. But I don't quite see why it's hard to believe that some people will start complaining now.

Fair enough in the case of someone who's just a racer, but you'd think someone running their own server would want to keep current on LFS developments. You'd think it's in the interest of the server boss (and, in turn, whoever plays on his server) to know what to expect from a new patch, whether they're racing, kroozing (whatever the hell that is) or just sitting next to each other in the car park beeping their horns and going "lol". Scawen gave the community plenty of time to test and make suggestions and report bugs, so if you're annoyed that something's changed or missing there's noone to blame but yourself.