Come on, it's not that expensive, maybe a couple pounds per year, and makes a bit of support for LFS and the team.

Many of the "give me give me" people out there would literally fall of the chair if the the bills for LFSWorld & LFS Forum bandwidth were shown to them.

Well, I answered no, just because my pc might have some troubles dealing with it. When I upgrade it, I think I will consider the OPTION. (that's right, remember is only an option!)

I wouldn't call it a price, but a contribution, considering the increase on the traffic generated, and so I think is fair enough.

From that screenshot Jason just posted, I just feel more like I will never buy that service. There are numerous reasons to that:

1. I don't feel like it will make such a difference when actually racing. The LOD being already decreased when you're far from another car, having a 1024* skin only gives the good looks for a closer look, which is something that happens 5% of the time in LFS.

2. Again from that screenshot, I don't see why I'd pay for 1024 skins while 2048 is better anyway, it's like being a midrange computer when you perfectly know it'll be crap compared to what you could get. You'd have to pay hundreds more to get the high range computer, but even if you pay twice the current price for 2048 skins, it's still cheap.

3. That has brought up by seinfield and it's quite true: the graphics in LFS aren't really what I'd personally call awesome, I don't see what difference it'll make to put higher resolution skins in there.

4. There's a lot of people that have nice looking skins now, but I don't see why I'd pay to see a higher resolution image of a crappy skin, and there are still quite a lot.

I mean, you're not forced to buy it, and there's not a huge difference between both options. I guess it just falls down to personal opinion...

I don't use for several reasons :

1. I didn't follow the S2 dev closely these last few months, I didn't even know about it.

2. I only have a 15" LCD at 1024x1024 at the moment, so I wouldn't see the difference.

If I had a bigger screen and a more powerfull computer, I would consider paying for this though.

i could see the difference on my 17" 1024 screen...

I have no need for the higher resolution textures, since (as was said earlier) a lot of people's skins are pretty basic anyway

That said, I can see how it would be a valuable asset to have for people trying to promote a league or tournament, since it would mean videos could have the highest quality skins without the extra hassle of making sure 32 drivers have supplied full (or at least not 512) resolution versions beforehand.

I don't pay for them because I simply don't have any money left lately and I don't care all that much about high res skins. Low res skins are nice enough for me, especially during racing.

Quote from joen :

You drive around in circles too much. That's just my opinion.

*prepares*

Priceless....

Does anyone realize that we're paying for the service of downloading? I think Scawen put it like this: The new skins are gonna eat up more bandwidth so we're gonna chage a small fee for the increased usage of the servers.

I guess people just have different ways of looking at it. Paying for skins vs. paying for BW

just got around to buying it. yet to try it though, way too much studying needing doing rather than pissing about looking at new shiny things.

well get back to your books and stop posting on the forum then

Quote from Bladerunner :

Also, why are you tight buggers ( "Pay for skins? NO WAY!") crowd..so against Scavier getting some dosh?

First of all, nobody is paying for skins. The devs aren't selling skins. They have offered a service and that is what you pay for: hosting in the form of space and bandwidth. Secondly, Scavier don't stand to make any decent money from such a cheap service and the reason that the service is not free is because of the cost of running it. It is not meant to be a profit-making exercise, it's a user-pays service which was a requested feature. It isn't going to suit everybody.

Quote from ATC Quicksilver :

I remember back in ye olde LFS days when the sharing of skins brought the community together. Some of the newer people probably missed out on that which is a shame really, it would always be 'oooh i have a really nice skin, add me on msn and i will send it' or something like that. Now its just done automatically, people join, race, don't talk, leave.

Man, I think auto downloading skins is one of THE BEST features of any online sim. Going over to rFactor or GTR2 seems so bland when it's the same skins over and over. LFS does not have a very big choice of cars at all, but with the skins, the cars are the most individual and unique of any sim out there, and really adds to the immersiveness, realism, and club-race feel.

Anyway, it's not too much money, and I get a lot of enjoyment out of LFS. I wouldn't otherwise give money to the devs, but I do genuinely appreciate this online simulator. I think it's worth it giving them a little extra cash, and it'll be cool for the smooth glossy eye candy.

Can anybody post a screenshot of an ingame shot with the hi res skins? And also, does anybody have any estimates for how long 2000 downloads would last for? A week? A month? 3 Months?

I estimate my £3 will last me between 6 months and a year, thereabouts, depending on how often I race.

For me the new skins are great. I have hi res texture packs for everything already, and the blurry cars were something of a nuisance. A while ago I made a 1024 skin downloader of my own and was using that, because it was annoying me so much that I couldn't read text on cars - mostly, as it happens, whilst watching racing rather than taking part.

I actually sent my downloader to the devs and asked if I could send this out to a few people - at which point the words 'bandwidth' and 'bill' started dribbling out of Scawen's trembling mouth.

I dont know if my project had any influence at all in the timing of the arrival of this feature, but I do know that before it many people had requested many times for higher resolution skins - myself included - because the low res ones were, for me and a few others at least, annoying.

If it takes a token fee to make that possible, then I really dont mind. I think LFS looks lovely now.

I think if we ever went to 2048 skins my graphics card might start complaining, or i'd have to take AA & AF off maximum or decrease a quality setting somewhere, but I have found that on 1024 the skins are now readable and detail is visible. 512 was too low, 1024 is perfectly acceptable. I guess I see 2048 skins the same way some people see 1024 skins - what's the point? 1024 is perfectly fine for LFS... 512 wasn't for me. That's my personal taste, and i'm happy with the trivial £5/year or so contribution I make toward making it possible.

I voted no because I rarely bother to race online these days and I can have 2048 x 2048 skins or bigger running offline, so don't have a need for the service.

however I have no problem with the inclusion of an optional auto hires downloader for a nominal fee to cover the bandwidth etc

I think it shows the devs are aware of the community, what we ask for and what can be achieved in response to requests.

I see it as not taking time away from S2 completion as some might, but a chance to test new stuff before any incomplete patches or S2 final.

Good on the devs for trying some innovation

ShannonN

Quote from Gunn :

First of all, nobody is paying for skins. The devs aren't selling skins. They have offered a service and that is what you pay for: hosting in the form of space and bandwidth. Secondly, Scavier don't stand to make any decent money from such a cheap service and the reason that the service is not free is because of the cost of running it. It is not meant to be a profit-making exercise, it's a user-pays service which was a requested feature. It isn't going to suit everybody.

Please READ my post...I fully realise that this is a SERVICE that is OPTIONAL.
I was having a 'go' at the people who had posted previously that they weren't going to pay for skins.
I also added in my post that I realise that this money is to go towards the extra bandwidth costs.

Quote from Me :

Making people pay a SMALL contribution to offset the increased bandwidth costs seems like good business practice to me, and if they make a few pennies extra out of it, then its even BETTER business practice.

You will also note that I said _IF_ they make a few pennies.
Please read posts fully before ripping them apart.

Yes, I will pay for it, even if it leads to a problem with bandwith at my home.

Scawen already mentioned they make a bit of profit, which they can use to upgrade their servers/kitchens with the £1.
The only people I can't understand are the ones complaining about paying. There is no problem sticking to how they've done it before, as paying is just an option.

Yesterday there was a car with a semi-nekkid lady on the front, with higher res skins I would have seen twice the detail! Brill. Reason enough to pay extra

Seriously though, looking at the cost - it is very high if you just take into consideration the amount of bandwidth used. ie 2000 skins at 100k average each lets say (have no skins to sample average size), would be approx 195mb. Equivalent £5ish per GB. Buying bandwidth in large amounts you can get it for a lot, lot less.

However if the profit helps elsewhere such as hardware improvements (goddamn slow online server listing) I would have no problem paying, the few helping the many etc.

my 1024 skins go from 350kb to 500kb

i have a big monitor but Im waiting for a better video card, so I choosed to pay when X is up

Quote from Pulped :

Yesterday there was a car with a semi-nekkid lady on the front, with higher res skins I would have seen twice the detail! Brill. Reason enough to pay extra

Seriously though, looking at the cost - it is very high if you just take into consideration the amount of bandwidth used. ie 2000 skins at 100k average each lets say (have no skins to sample average size), would be approx 195mb. Equivalent £5ish per GB. Buying bandwidth in large amounts you can get it for a lot, lot less.

However if the profit helps elsewhere such as hardware improvements (goddamn slow online server listing) I would have no problem paying, the few helping the many etc.

My converted 1024x1024 DDS files are about 683 kb each,

so for 2000 skins thats about = 1.3GB for £1

With my ISP I pay about £16 for 5GB per month = 1.3GB for £4.16

(I think Scawen should take out a second mortgage, he's gonna go broke *chuckle*)

edit: Ok sorry - I didnt realise they were transferred in JPG format and converted on the receiving end. Thanks Devil 007

The files are sent as jpeg and not as DDS files.So around 100-300KB I would say.
They are then converted on fly to DDS files.

BTW ISP rip of the home customers for data hell a lot - bealive me.They pay like 1/10 or even less of what you actually pay for the same.

The skins examples above are the ones I made as peoplke were willing to seee the difference.I hope it helped.
If you would have the money to spend it would be not for the 1024 but for the 2048 versions.

This optional service is ihmo very good I think.Noone is forced but the option is still there to get better skins online without browsing several forums and ask individually people.Also the small profit from that goes to servers upgrade etc and thats very good.People should think about it they dont pay for the skins for for bandwitch and servers maintance/upgrades.

my 1024 JPG files go from 300kb to 500kb

Would be good to know the actual size that's output by LFSW. ie I did a quick calculation based on 50% compression, I imagine you are saving it max.

Also ISP broadband rates per GB are very different from hosting packages (especially if you bulk buy in the 1000's of GB )

Quote from zurdospeed :

my 1024 JPG files go from 300kb to 500kb

max JPEG size on LFS world allowed is 400KB! Thats max.Not all the skins have the size.Some people cant use JPEG compression well