The online racing simulator
i just want to add in something: oval racing is NOT only BF1 on the oval. i think every car is different to drive there. to speak for myself i prefere the FO8 and the gtrs to the bf1 on the oval. besides that tbo class can also be challanging.

driving fast on the oval is not that important, its more important during a race to make the right move at the right time.

when driving alone there is THE line. end of story.

but when you are with other drivers and probably one of those other guys IS ON THAT line or he is next to you, so nobody of you both is ON that line you have to think. the outcome of this is both of you have to make the best out of the situation. and that is where it starts to be interesting. which is the best line OFF of the ideal line.

for example T3 with gtr/tbo the ideal line is pretty tight to the inside sloping to the outside at the exit. when there are 3 cars next to each other, the inner cars can't slope outside because there is another car there (and lots of crashes happen exactly at this point). so the outer lane becomes the faster lane all of a sudden on the straight because the car has the highest speed compared to the other two. and this kind of behavior can last for several laps.

so oval racing is not thinking from turn to turn. it needs much more confidence to the other drivers next to you. which probably is the biggest problem. lots of drivers in lfs give a damn shit about other drivers when they join an oval. just because they don't look or they think "this track is broad enough and you don't have to turn anyway".

so the interesting thing on the oval is not: sticking to the ideal line as best as possible. its more the interaction between all drivers.

and thats the next thing: drafting and bumpdrafting. however we do not have air-push (i hope we will have that soon) the drafting behavior of lfs is different to e.g. NASCAR. on superspeedways a group of 5 cars driving behind each other is faster then a group of 2 just because of the air-push each car gives. but that is not reality on lfs because of the lack of the aero-model. so we do swing-by drafting which needs some sort of working together from both cars the overtaken and the overtaking. if they work together well they can gain on the cars in front. if they fight for position they will lose and maybe crash as well.

in longer races its sometimes better to slow down for half a lap to get a drafting partner instead of driving the next 50 laps alone.

so again: its making the right move at the right time and not "how can i pass the car in front in lap 5 in T2" in a 120 laps race.
Quote from Jakg :what? most people know about the lapper from either Redline servers of the FM Servers, both seem to have every SINGLE feature enabled and every 2 seconds you get a message

it seems, but its not the case. Apparently, you dont have a clue about what you talking about.

Quote from Jakg :
im with AJP, i find it REALLY hard to follow who said what etc when you don't use proper quotes

i ment his double post which he could have also put into his first one. Funny thing is, he made a advice to red_wing but did something far more annoying: spam.

Quote from Jakg :
i've been in one, it was STCC Drivers V FM Guys, Oval, TBO
Unsurprisingly (used to do a LOT of ovaling but got bored of a circle) i won, with STCC drivers taking the top ones, and FM drivers suprisingly not making many notable finishes

All drivers from FM that took part, which where Torben, Laudi & Fischfix are skilled thats for sure, but i would not say that they are crazy oval nutters like Failure and myself. Just in case there is a next time, you will not win, at least not if me or Failure are on the track. Besides, i remember racing against you on a STCC server and you didn't do very well there. You got beaten by a oval nutter on a curcuit track isn't that strange?
#28 - Jakg
Quote from 510N3D :it seems, but its not the case. Apparently, you dont have a clue about what you talking about.

im using my experience from last time i went on your server (about a month ago?)

So i think i DO have a clue what i'm taking about, unless you've changed it...
Quote from 510N3D :Besides, i remember racing against you on a STCC server and you didn't do very well there. You got beaten by a oval nutter on a curcuit track isn't that strange?

funny i don't seem to remember that, care to share any more information?
Quote from 510N3D :

All drivers from FM that took part, which where Torben, Laudi & Fischfix are skilled thats for sure, but i would not say that they are crazy oval nutters like Failure and myself. Just in case there is a next time, you will not win, at least not if me or Failure are on the track. Besides, i remember racing against you on a STCC server and you didn't do very well there. You got beaten by a oval nutter on a curcuit track isn't that strange?

just to defend myself: i was the fastest on rb4 class in qualifying and during the first part of the race (even faster then some of the xrt). however you don't have a damn chance for winning this thing in an rb4. thats why the whole thing had 3 winners. for each car one winner. and it was a fun event so i took the rb4 as i like it.

i made some mistakes when fighting with samH for the rb4 lead. my race ended when i got cought in a crash of some drivers in front standing on track after t3. which brought me a lap down because i had to toss my car around the track. and did not manage to get out of pits in front of the pacecar which made me 2 laps down. however it was fun and i think you probably had a lot more problems if we all would have been allowed to use the same car. remember there was this discussion at the start if all drivers must drive the xrt.

that were excuses i know. but every result has its reasons.
Quote from Jakg :im using my experience from last time i went on your server (about a month ago?)

So i think i DO have a clue what i'm taking about, unless you've changed it...funny i don't seem to remember that, care to share any more information?

Still, you dont have a clue, since W17 it needs some work around again but before it had individual settings just to fit our needs. Besides, we had a reminder which was needed yes, but it was every minute not second.

Have a look at the 12 November 2006.

Quote from Fischfix :just to defend myself: i was the fastest on rb4 class in qualifying and during the first part of the race (even faster then some of the xrt). however you don't have a damn chance for winning this thing in an rb4. thats why the whole thing had 3 winners. for each car one winner. and it was a fun event so i took the rb4 as i like it.

i made some mistakes when fighting with samH for the rb4 lead. my race ended when i got cought in a crash of some drivers in front standing on track after t3. which brought me a lap down because i had to toss my car around the track. and did not manage to get out of pits in front of the pacecar which made me 2 laps down. however it was fun and i think you probably had a lot more problems if we all would have been allowed to use the same car. remember there was this discussion at the start if all drivers must drive the xrt.

that were excuses i know. but every result has its reasons.

Yeah a fun event, even more a reason for Jakg to not be too proud about his famous win over FM And yeah Fischfix, youre a damn good driver and theres no need to defend yourself ok, but tbh, you need more practice or spend more time on the track (not sure about TBO class, GTR probably not but BF1 fo shizzle, do we agree on that?) I always feel a bit unsecure in your presence but i always enjoyed racing you mate
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(510N3D) DELETED by 510N3D
thats true i feel unsecure with the bf1 myself. i had not that much time and passion for racing the bf1 lately.

atm i like gtr more because you know... lfscar and stuff...

but thanks for your words those mean a lot as you are one of the best drivers i know.
#32 - Jakg
@510N3D - You never even raced against Jakg on 12/12/06 only got a couple of seconds on the less than full new and bronze server which isn't difficult when the fast guys aren't around.

Why do all oval racers seem totally insecure having to be the best racer ever? I'm not fast and don't claim to be and really don't really care what you think of my ability.
#34 - Jakg
oh my god! your right!

I would like to point out that i'm 3 secs off pace consistently, which seems odd as i usually set 57.3-57.5's

Although do you have a bloody photographic memory?!
AFAIK, november is the eleventh (11) month, we had several races and he always finished behind me. Besides, i dont get your point ajp71, what exactly is your problem? Wait, if its personal as your hole reply sounds like, i dont want to know it at all.

Quote from ajp71 :Why do all oval racers seem totally insecure having to be the best racer ever?

lol...no comment

Quote from JakG :I would like to point out that i'm 3 secs off pace consistently, which seems odd as i usually set 57.3-57.5's

Although do you have a bloody photographic memory?!

/me just expected your question about some more details about it

Over & out.
#36 - Davo
Where did the intelligent discussion go, once again a thread full of jakg spam.
there seems to be some confusion and/or lack of willingness of pro-oval racers to understand what anti-oval racers are saying, so let me simplify it.

although i obviously can't speak for everyone, i don't think it's fair to say that oval racing requires NO skill, or that that is what anti-ovalists are saying. if that was the case, the finishing order would be completely dependent upon setup (like drag racing) or random (if using the same sets). obviously this is not the case, as the best drivers will tend to win, and drivers who aren't as good will not be able to keep up. it would be silly to claim that skill doesn't matter when cleary it does.

that being said, however, the fact remains that ovals are boring, and that is the real complaint of most people. in a road race, someone who is good at late braking but no so good in other areas can have an exciting race against someone who brakes like a girl but has good rhythm through twisty sections and sweepers. but in an oval race, either you have the small set of skills required or you don't, and once the better drivers start to pull away, there is no catching them unless they crash.

i'd also like to add that everything good about oval racing can also be found in road racing. if you like to drive lap after lap, perfecting your line through 2 or 3 turns, imagine how much more fun it would be to drive lap after lap, perfecting your line through 10 or 15 turns (not to mention perfecting your braking points, and a load of other things!).
Can't one of the moderators please show some mercy and close this abortion of a thread?

It tried to have intelligent discussion, but it failed terribly and is just as awful as any of the other pro/contra oval/drifting/ISI threads in existence. Can't we just once learn from history that arguments about tastes in driving style don't have a resolution? Or a winner? Or any point at all?

Things I've learned from this thread:
- Jakg won an oval race
- 510N3D remembers the date he beat Jakg on a non oval track
Great.
word.
@redwing, fischfix, mike, schdoond, ice, etc: OMG

@jakg, tc, etc.: *censored* 6,877 + 8,101 < 31.42 .....

@davo: +1
*post deleted due to the pointless arguments surround the OVAL VS. ROAD RACING discussion....*
Quote from evilgeek :there seems to be some confusion and/or lack of willingness of pro-oval racers to understand what anti-oval racers are saying, so let me simplify it.

although i obviously can't speak for everyone, i don't think it's fair to say that oval racing requires NO skill, or that that is what anti-ovalists are saying. if that was the case, the finishing order would be completely dependent upon setup (like drag racing) or random (if using the same sets). obviously this is not the case, as the best drivers will tend to win, and drivers who aren't as good will not be able to keep up. it would be silly to claim that skill doesn't matter when cleary it does.

that being said, however, the fact remains that ovals are boring, and that is the real complaint of most people. in a road race, someone who is good at late braking but no so good in other areas can have an exciting race against someone who brakes like a girl but has good rhythm through twisty sections and sweepers. but in an oval race, either you have the small set of skills required or you don't, and once the better drivers start to pull away, there is no catching them unless they crash.

i'd also like to add that everything good about oval racing can also be found in road racing. if you like to drive lap after lap, perfecting your line through 2 or 3 turns, imagine how much more fun it would be to drive lap after lap, perfecting your line through 10 or 15 turns (not to mention perfecting your braking points, and a load of other things!).

No, not fact. Still an opinion. The oval in LFS is certainly a lot less exciting than something that requires braking and more car control in mid-corner. Hopefully, we'll see something like that in LFS soon. But until we do, we have to deal with these continuing misconceptions about oval racing. I think given the right configuration, the skills required on circuit racing (late braking, car control mid-corner, setup, etc.) will be equally important on oval racing.
This is so bad it's past being a funny bad.
It's like that bad where you want it to stop but it keeps
going and going and you can't look away because of it's awe inspiring
awfullness. (Insert unfunny chuck norris joke here)

Just let it die.
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FGED GREDG RDFGDR GSFDG