Second reason being, that not everybody is skilled and/or calm enough to deal with somebody bumping him from behind, and thus will likely screw up. It's okay, of course to put pressure on someone, but not if it involves contact.

Plus: We still have this issue that two cars sort of get stuck to each other, which makes bump drafting unpredictable.

I never bumpdraft in LFS, im not fast enough! But, I do "block" a little bit. For example, if the person behind me is trying to pass, I will try to take the largest path all the way from one side of the track, to the apex of the corner, and all the way on the other kerb. I DO NOT swerve left and right though.

this had turned into a very interesting read, thanks guys

Quote from JTbo :

When changing line on straight is no more allowed?

Car at front of me is slower I move to side and my front is bit front of other rear bumper, am I resposible causing accident if car at front changes his line and crashes even I just drive straight?

I would say that changing line in such situation is mistake, changing line should be made before faster car has got so far, but I have always doubt my view of this case, maybe I'm wrong?

To me it's clear: once a chasing car has any overlap on a straight, the leading car should not move across. Any blocking move should be done before the chasing car is alongside and forced to avoid contact.

Where it gets pretty grey is when the chasing car is commited to a pass and is a split second from having overlap and is carrying more speed, but hasn't quite got the overlap yet. In my view the leading car has left it too late to start a move across to block, but IRL Schumacher seemed to get away with putting the chasing car in the position of yield/swerve or crash.

One case that I remember was Brazil (can't remember the year) where he pulled across on Montoya (who'd commited to pass on Schumacher's left) and Montoya lost his wing. At the split second Schumacher started to move, Montoya didn't have overlap, but was carrying more speed and the contact was almost instant.

I don't want this to turn into a Schumacher bash, but he is/was a top driver who pushed the rules in the area of this thread topic. Even in his last F1 race we saw him move across on another car, expecting the other driver to yield (in this case Fisi), although he came off worse in that case.

Quote from Rob76 :

One case that I remember was Brazil (can't remember the year) where he pulled across on Montoya (who'd commited to pass on Schumacher's left) and Montoya lost his wing. At the split second Schumacher started to move, Montoya didn't have overlap, but was carrying more speed and the contact was almost instant.

Not helped by the fact that Juan Crashlo Montoya was a fool, and thought he could overtake anyone without risk. I think you'd find that a better driver (lets say Ide upwards) would have feinted and gone the other way, or done something more to make Schumi make the mistake.

And anyway, if you watch the replay Schumi was already moving across before Juan pulled out, and really should have thought "what happens if he carries on moving to the left?". But he didn't. That's why he's better when there is less to think about, e.g. on ovals.

Just a quick FYI on the blue flag: you'll only ever see a blue flag notice pop up if you're about to be lapped by the guy behind you. If you're both on the same lap the car in front isn't going to see a blue flag, even if you're right up his exhaust. In that case it's the responsibility of the following driver (you in this case) to try and pass as safely as possible and not simply assume that the lead car will let you by wherever you decide to have a go (of course it's also the lead car's responsibility to leave you racing room and not pull a Schumonty). Your friend would have been quite correct in saying he couldn't see any blue flag notice because it just wouldn't have been there. Anyway, I doubt you'd be in a position to lap your mate only a few laps after you started your race, unless of course you're in a BF1 and he's in a UF1

What I think the rule should be: On straights a driver cannot drive in a manner that forces another driver to either leave the track, lift off the throttle or brake to avoid a collision.

Much simpler than the one-lane-change rule that was invented in 1995 when Damon Hill was fed up with Schumi's antics and demanded a rules clarification. Ironically it was exactly this new rule that, from then on, allowed Schumi to chop other people and then say: "hey, the rules allow me to chop once!" Before the rule, everyone knew it was dirty.

I think the rule as it stands is pretty simple: you can move once to cover your line & once again to return to your line - anything more is against the rules. If you want to add things about lifting or leaving the track or braking to avoid collisions I think that would add too many extra variables and could quite possibly confuse people. You could imagine many instances where the driver in front legitimately has to slow or swerve or change direction without warning (perhaps to avoid someone else or through a mechanical problem etc) but accidentally hits someone else or hinders their progress. The "one move and then back again" rule is pretty clear imho and doesn't leave much room for creative interpretation.

But it allows you to do what happens here at 0:32. Do you think that move was legit?

Certainly not! Legal perhaps, but certainly not respectable

Anyway, using Schumacher's blatant swerving as an example isn't exactly building a solid case against the one-move rule Schu is/was a serial rule-stretcher & bender (if not an out & out rule-breaker) and that video certainly isn't the only example of him behaving in that way - in fact it's typical behaviour if you look at his entire F1 career. The sad part about Schu's consistent displays of poor sportsmanship is that they were simply unnecessary, given his great skill and, later, the strength of Ferrari. While he may have been within the technical limitations of the law in that video, he certainly wasn't driving in the spirit of it. It was lucky Mika had the skill to avoid an incident - we know Schu wasn't above causing an incident to further his ambition or to hinder someone else's.

The thing is, the simplicity of the "once & again" rule implies a certain amount of sportsmanship & common sense on the part of the driver with regard to the difference between a defensive move and a deliberate block or swerve. In many rules there is "room to move", as it were, it's just that some people take more room than others. They may be technically in the right while doing so but that doesn't mean they're acting in the spirit of sportsmanship or using their common sense. Thing is, no matter how specific a rules gets there will always be people who will find loopholes or bend the rules without actually behaving illegally. Think of the countless times Ferrari have been up before the FIA for tiny, technical breaches of regulations or exploitation of grey areas in rules! There will also be situations that arise in a race which aren't covered in a rule because noone could anticipate them. I think the simpler a rule is, the less interpretation you can squeeze out of it, the easier it is to actually apply that rule and the fairer it is for everyone.

Truth may be that sometimes the duel is lost in failing to drive few corners effectively. Defending depends hugely on the position of the track. I think the main defensive weapon is the knowledge about track and car. It's stupid to take any other line than the "best" racing line in some places, but for some curves (quite many actually) ad hoc lines usually work pretty well.

I love making the car as wide as possible without jerky sharp line changes. The defensive line starts from a turn and is pretty much choosed before that or in it. I'm quite static and erratic when defending my position, and sometimes that's just enough. Most of the times my strategy envolves counter striking. It's always easier to put pressure on the racer in front, so I usually "force" the compatitor to make foolish passing attempts or I just let them by and begin to pressurise.

Contacts are no-no. Intentional contacts are disapproved and accidents/mishaps are embarassing.

Defending position for several laps is quite an adrenaline rush, but constantly fighting for position through several position changes is the rush.

Quote from J.B. :

But it allows you to do what happens here at 0:32. Do you think that move was legit?

Nothing wrong with that at all.

I'd say it was bit late to make the move, couldve' ended up worse, but he had to cover the inside line for the corner. Not so lucky next lap

Ooh, the next lap was pure gold.

Quote from Gunn :

Nothing wrong with that at all.

I'd be interested in why you think so. My view is that he scared Hakkinen into lifting off on the straight to avoid a collision at 320 km/h. What's your view?

Didn't look like anything was wrong there to me, just good defending

Yup, fine.

C'mon guys. I at least tried to explain my view. With comments like "everything's fine" I don't know how you come to your conclusions. Is it "yes, you can force someone to brake on a straight as long as it's once per straight" or is it "he left enough room but Hakkinen chickened" or is something else. Do tell.

=)

Well there was enough room and I think Hakkinen decided that it wasn't worth the risk to try passing there with that little room.

It was a single move - if you watch, and take into account the motion of the camera, you'll see that Schumi doesn't move, stop, and move again, but the move to the right is one maneouver. When Hakkinen started the move there was enough room, but by the time he was close enough to be alongside Schumi had closed the door.

Hakkinen was a bit peeved because he had to back out quite late in the manouver, but that shows class to me. A certain South American oval racer would have just driven blindly into the back of Schumi rather than waiting and doing it again (even more classily) on the next lap. Hence Mika = 2 world titles, Montoya = Zilch, zero, none.

OK, doesn't change my opinion but it's still interesting to see other points of view.

You're right Tristan, JPM would've probably just stayed in there and after the huge crash at least MS would've known not to do it to him again. Mika's way was indeed more successful at the end of the day but I think that incidents like this are also part of the reason why Mika was the only main rival of MS that he was friendly with: he knew he could mistreat Mika on the track and get away with it.

He simply moved over and covered the inside line. Not only was it ok to do so it is the best move to make in that situation. The McLaren was a bit erratic as the clean air was buffeted by the Ferrari's slipstream, quite normal in F1. Everything happens so fast in F1 but those guys are used to it. Schumacher wasn't mistreating him one bit.