The one thing that’s hurting the community as a whole is some big updates that people are waiting on for over 12 years, mostly tyre phicics, VWS and graphics update, many racers left to games like rFactor 2 and iRacing. I’m not saying this to put the blame on you devs, but in a world of games where the rate of development/evolvement is this high, it has hurt the game and community in the long run. Image is from a former LFS Rallycross Regular driver, who also raced IRL, as has over 50% of their team, same with many Swedish/Norwegian drivers that used to play/race almost daily on LFS Norge(RX)
Thanks for all the answers.
Really, Scirocco is just the worst reason you could come up with for drop in attendance to races. Specially now that we can create almost any car in existence. But I forgot, it's the Holy Grail of sim racing!
When that Scirocco is released, people are going to drive around in it and I can assure you, they won't be just unbelievably happy about the experience for the next several months. Most likely they'll do a few laps then wonder what all the fuss was about. It's pretty crazy really if you think about it.
Really, Scirocco is just the worst reason you could come up with for drop in attendance to races. Specially now that we can create almost any car in existence. But I forgot, it's the Holy Grail of sim racing!
When that Scirocco is released, people are going to drive around in it and I can assure you, they won't be just unbelievably happy about the experience for the next several months. Most likely they'll do a few laps then wonder what all the fuss was about. It's pretty crazy really if you think about it.
My response focused more on 2 other parts, but ok if you just pick that out, but if you see how online racers dropped from 1000 avg. to only 150 avg. now, i think it’s pretty obvious where the lower playerbase <-> attendence is hurting the community in relation to events, VWS was only mentioned an example of the update list promised over 10 years ago…
VWS not gonna change anything my men
Especially now whit vehicle modsAnd i heard it shet to drive
Well you are wrong about that because the graphics update is far more recent than that.
If we are going to talk about what was promised when, then the conversation isn't going to get very far.
If you read the first post, I was wondering if there was anything we could do to improve attendance in the current version, and I specifically asked to avoid a discussion about the graphics and physics, which I acknowledged already as what I need to do on my side.
Men give an update when new graphics expected
also when new progress report
My opinion is once the new physics and graphics have been released, is to take the time to make LFS available on Steam.
Online marketplaces, like it or not are where the games industry is going or is already at.
Online marketplaces, like it or not are where the games industry is going or is already at.
Initially i never saw this as the way forward but my opinion has started to steer towards it probably being best. Even if it was put on steam as a demo game with information on how to buy licenses to unlock all content
Putting the LFS demo on Steam is using Steam to promote LFS. LFS needs visibility. Maybe that's a good thing? (how many licenses were sold with that?).
Forcing players to go through Steam to play LFS is something else. This would add huge constraints (40GB of total pollution, connection obligation, update problem, unwanted advertising...).
Using Steam is like giving the keys to your house to someone who can decide if you have the right to enter and if your house is still yours...
LFS is an off-the-shelf, off-system, indie game. This is also what makes it unique. Platforms like Steam are already the past. The future is the LFS marketing model: The short circuit. Direct from producer to consumer without unnecessary and costly harmful intermediary.
You wouldn't really be forcing players to go through steam as the new customers would already be steam users, they already would have steam installed.
Battlefield which used to be an Origin only game had decided to also go through steam which brought in a lot of new players.
With steam having around 120 million users it could only have a postive effect on that side of things, and by only offering the demo version through steam you wouldn't have to be sharing any cost of those deciding to buy the licenses.
I agree, the graphical update along with the current Mod system would be whats needed to get it go the right way on steam.
The LFS demo on Steam is advertising for LFS. For it to work, the game must be more attractive with graphic update (we agree).
But the paid version of LFS has nothing to gain to be on Steam. Neither today nor tomorrow or ever.
Steam induces a consuming adictic and harmful that does a lot of harm, including to the online events (to return to the subject).
With Steam you decide to play. The game is unimportant. You have the choice. You can switch from one to another indefinitely (as long as Steam works ...).
Deciding to open LFS to play it, it's different. You are there only for LFS. You ned to find a race that motivates you to join a server. This is another story. The racers don't all want to play bowling with buses ...
But the paid version of LFS has nothing to gain to be on Steam. Neither today nor tomorrow or ever.
Steam induces a consuming adictic and harmful that does a lot of harm, including to the online events (to return to the subject).
With Steam you decide to play. The game is unimportant. You have the choice. You can switch from one to another indefinitely (as long as Steam works ...).
Deciding to open LFS to play it, it's different. You are there only for LFS. You ned to find a race that motivates you to join a server. This is another story. The racers don't all want to play bowling with buses ...
Nerf vipercake so the rest of us have a chance at winning
Nerf me so others can win aswell
Best way to get racers is ban every cruise server,so they will join to races
If you have something against steam, please don't drag lfs into this vendetta of yours, steam is probably the most populated gaming platform on PC that offers the necessary visibility for a nich indy game like LFS.
If we go by your logic, they should start selling only physical copies and close their social media accounts since internet induce heavy addiction for the weak and distracted users, plus being heavily regulated by corrupt governments.
Iracing devs are doing it just fine, by using steam as a proxy to direct users to their licensing platform, and even if they sell licences directly on steam that's still bonus incomes for the devs.
iRacing even uses EGS to drive license sales as well. On both platforms they also offer some nice deals 1-2 times a year which makes picking up a smurf account very cheap for a year
No steam please, i love the "artisanal" way of lfs and his own forum etc... All fortnite's kids will come and test lfs => CRASHERS NOOO!
Did I mention corrupt governments somewhere?
If we don't admire monopolistic corporations, we are reactionary, backward plotters who want to take the world back to the Stone Age? It's what you think?
Yes I have a lot of things against Steam. But that's not the point and I didn't talk about it here first.
If developers manage to take advantage of Steam without imposing its inconveniences on their players, i have nothing against that. On the other hand, having to go through Steam to play LFS, no thanks. I prefer to reinstall Windows 95 and Codemaster Toca2.
Sounds like it would be a real crime if there were people playing LFS.
It wouldn't be of an inconvenience to you, it would only be the regular steam users that downloaded LFS via steam that would be going through it.
You people need to think a little bit about the game and the community as a whole and not only what your preferences dictate, the devs clearly stated that the game needs more visibility to attract players, but instead you want to bury the game even further just because it "feels good" to be unique.
Do you think that I like bloated program that runs in the background each time I want to play a game ? hell no, but if it what it takes to attract more players, I will gladly embrace the new platform.
and yes, we were all kids/crashers/beginners when we started to play the game, it's up to us the community to guide the newcomers to become better as a players, there is nothing wrong with that.
I agree 100% and wanted to add that Steam is not needed for a simulator racing enthusiast.
That "club" is well known, a person don't casually play a racing simulator game.
Every time you google, youtube, etc the words "racing simulators", Live For Speed is always at least present in the list.
Youtube is still the biggest advertiser for games: the reviewers are thousand, any new game is played by many, even live. Comparison videos have always many views.
In these comparison videos, LFS is really popular in racing simulators category: I've heard many people saying "yeah graphics sucks, there are so few cars and tracks etc, but that 'feeling' is unique and you must try it".
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IZEY2JvWJ4I
All the while racer numbers are low and many people i meet on Assetto Corsa that are good and frequent racers have never heard of LFS. You either get gamers through marketing (real marketing) which cost or putting it out there in anyway possible to get noticed.
Times have changed for us older ones and its now the younger audience that needs to be brought it, and in this day and age, places like steam have 120 million users, so its ideal
How can having the demo of LFS on steam be anything but benefical, its like free advertising. I have seen it work with Origin only games like Battlefield.
Having the demo on Steam then have a link to buy licenses direct from LFS, also mention all the different events that on, it could attract some of the more non casual racers who had thought LFS was dead
I believe that Steam would certainly sell a lot of licenses and bring many new players into the game, though that may not translate necessarily into improved attendance at events in the long term.
While Assetto Corsa sure does have the bling and modelling detail to attract a large audience, its physics still leave a lot to be desired, at least in my opinion. To me AC still feels like its predecessor; Netcar Pro, with it's general 'understeery' attitude towards rear wheel drive cars. I just can't seem to escape the 'pole up the arse' handling even though AC is certainly an improvement on its ancestor. But the point remains that better graphics and more polys are the expectation of the new customer in the modern era. The upcoming facelift for LFS is sure to appeal to a greater audience.
For many of us I know that good car and world physics trumps high-poly, fancy graphics every day of the week. It's about the actual racing after all, and Live For Speed has never been found wanting in this aspect. Even Live For Speed's tyre model seems today more sophisticated than its modern rivals, and (for me at least) the force feedback - while not perfect in every way - is the most intuitive to be found when it comes down to knowing the limits of your car. The netcode is solid and the rapidity with which one can fire up the game and be racing online remains unrivaled.
Live For Speed is an excellent racing sim, and although I'm sure I can't completely shed my bias, I'm certain that my mind isn't playing tricks on me, and won't be easily changed, either.
Having said all that; I've always believed that any game endures not by virtue of its features, but by the passion and efforts of its community. Pity that more developers don't (won't) grasp this important concept. While LFS will garner more appeal from graphics and physics improvements (and undoubtedly by the addition of more content), at the end of the day it's the players that hold the future of the sim in the balance. A loyal and dedicated community of racers is the answer to longevity.
While Assetto Corsa sure does have the bling and modelling detail to attract a large audience, its physics still leave a lot to be desired, at least in my opinion. To me AC still feels like its predecessor; Netcar Pro, with it's general 'understeery' attitude towards rear wheel drive cars. I just can't seem to escape the 'pole up the arse' handling even though AC is certainly an improvement on its ancestor. But the point remains that better graphics and more polys are the expectation of the new customer in the modern era. The upcoming facelift for LFS is sure to appeal to a greater audience.
For many of us I know that good car and world physics trumps high-poly, fancy graphics every day of the week. It's about the actual racing after all, and Live For Speed has never been found wanting in this aspect. Even Live For Speed's tyre model seems today more sophisticated than its modern rivals, and (for me at least) the force feedback - while not perfect in every way - is the most intuitive to be found when it comes down to knowing the limits of your car. The netcode is solid and the rapidity with which one can fire up the game and be racing online remains unrivaled.
Live For Speed is an excellent racing sim, and although I'm sure I can't completely shed my bias, I'm certain that my mind isn't playing tricks on me, and won't be easily changed, either.
Having said all that; I've always believed that any game endures not by virtue of its features, but by the passion and efforts of its community. Pity that more developers don't (won't) grasp this important concept. While LFS will garner more appeal from graphics and physics improvements (and undoubtedly by the addition of more content), at the end of the day it's the players that hold the future of the sim in the balance. A loyal and dedicated community of racers is the answer to longevity.
Simracing is all about immersion, graphics and physics are both important, a very good sim should aim to nail both aspects.
I agree that lfs was and still (in some aspects) a very good sim, but let's try to not deny other people work, I believe that there's many passionate devs behind those sims (AC/C, iracing, rfactor...) that are striving to bring us quality products, they kept the sims community alive and we even grew in number in these past years!
I also agree that passion plays a no negligible role in a product quality and longevity, but without visibility you might as well give up earning the fruit of you labor, I understood that the hard way, I hate the concept of social media with passion, I prefer the old fashioned discussions platforms, but because I m a graphic designer and my job by nature require heavy exposition to all kind of medias, I m forced to use them to not give up my passion and livelihood.
This is how life goes, it's all about compromises.
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Off topic posts from "How to improve attendance" thread
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