The online racing simulator
Possible changes for a semi-compatible update
(170 posts, closed, started , go to first unread)
Flame reminded me of a small feature request I made in a VR demo video I made a couple of years ago surrounding the VR keyboard (@2:20). I wonder whether you could move it, or give the option to move it around (maybe directional arrows next to it like the mirror adjustment gimble?)

Just jumping on the tweaks bandwagon here. Cheers.
#77 - R-to
Scawen is it possible to do in future in the game, that you can make your own cars in the game but you have to go "LFS CUSTOM MODE" or something like that what wont allowed to touch world record lap times and so on... And what i mean by making your own cars is only modify those cars what are in the game.

My dream lfs would be like, that i can modify those cars what are in the game way i want. The game allows you to go some kind of "custom car room" and you can adjust hp/nm power curve way you want. You can chose steering angle way you want, you can chose rim and tyre size way you want, you can chose weight way you want, you can chose drivetrain is it fwd, rwd or 4wd. you can chose what the car revlimit is, you can chose how many cylinder it has, 4,5,6,8,10 or 12 cylinder! you can chose weight balance and many other important things. All the options straight in the game that you can modify your dream cars features in those cars what are in the game.

And then when you have made your "dream/favourite" cars you can add them into your own multiplayer server. Example 3 FXO cars. 1 is fwd, 1 is rwd and 1 is 4wd and everybody can chose them and race those only, but only in the "LFS CUSTOM MODE"

That feature in LIVE FOR SPEED will kick ass so hard that you cant even imagine. You can make your favourite racing series easy just by modify your own cars in the game in to your own special racing series.

i dont know how hard that is to do, but that is alot if it possible. We are talking alot about you scawen here in finland and thinking that you should make more "nerd" friends and make live for speed the best simulation game ever! (it is the best, but it can be alot better)
Quote from R-to :Scawen is it possible to do in future in the game, that you can make your own cars in the game but you have to go "LFS CUSTOM MODE" or something like that what wont allowed to touch world record lap times and so on... And what i mean by making your own cars is only modify those cars what are in the game.

My dream lfs would be like, that i can modify those cars what are in the game way i want. The game allows you to go some kind of "custom car room" and you can adjust hp/nm power curve way you want. You can chose steering angle way you want, you can chose rim and tyre size way you want, you can chose weight way you want, you can chose drivetrain is it fwd, rwd or 4wd. you can chose what the car revlimit is, you can chose how many cylinder it has, 4,5,6,8,10 or 12 cylinder! you can chose weight balance and many other important things. All the options straight in the game that you can modify your dream cars features in those cars what are in the game.

And then when you have made your "dream/favourite" cars you can add them into your own multiplayer server. Example 3 FXO cars. 1 is fwd, 1 is rwd and 1 is 4wd and everybody can chose them and race those only, but only in the "LFS CUSTOM MODE"

That feature in LIVE FOR SPEED will kick ass so hard that you cant even imagine. You can make your favourite racing series easy just by modify your own cars in the game in to your own special racing series.

i dont know how hard that is to do, but that is alot if it possible. We are talking alot about you scawen here in finland and thinking that you should make more "nerd" friends and make live for speed the best simulation game ever! (it is the best, but it can be alot better)

It has problems with 3 and 5 cylinders, it must be resolved first. There was no such problem in the past. The game fails.
Quote from mbutcher :Flame reminded me of a small feature request I made in a VR demo video I made a couple of years ago surrounding the VR keyboard (@2:20). I wonder whether you could move it, or give the option to move it around (maybe directional arrows next to it like the mirror adjustment gimble?)

Just jumping on the tweaks bandwagon here. Cheers.

+1 on that request
Quote from Kid222 :As far as i've seen, there's no warping like in LFS, the cars slide on the surface more smoothly and "continuously".

They may seem smooth for the person with the high ping, but viewing others in A.C or Pcars 2 with such a high ping is bad. Jumping around all over the track which then has a negative effect on other racers
Quote from Scawen :A very interesting side-by-side video by kagurazakayukari showing the difference between a live recording and an MPR, with Wizard DK driving a lap of Blackwood.
https://www.lfs.net/forum/post/1962078#post1962078

The glitches you can see in the MPR recorded on Wizard DK's computer can be improved by sending more packets, but the issues seen in the live recording cannot be improved by sending more packets. They are due to latency (high ping).

and this debate could be why too ?
https://www.lfs.net/forum/post/1958785#post1958785
sea cables. the distance between computer and master server.
creating the high ping. again something we can not do anything about other than wait for a new better ,faster network really. this is also how i was one who understood why CG Dave blocked some areas back then.
i know this is the packets we speak of. but i thought i mention this as reference to the side by side video.


Quote from mbutcher :I made a couple of years ago surrounding the VR keyboard

would be GREAT to have a feature outside VR settings to completely remove the Virtual keyboard,for non VR users.
or could "key" it on user defined button. just a mention as it really can ruin a race when it pops up.

in addition to this, i have spoken to many who say VR KB simply just pops up by itself at times. i have experienced this myself too. so a small question is related to this too.
can VR keyboard pop up by itself due to lag ? that would be interesting to know also.
(if using lfs strobe (by tommy i think) it will take the VR keyboard and flash it because it apparently use this between flashes of lights) but its not activated inside LFS.(i am thinking you would use TC lights for this and therefore perhaps did not notice this in newer patches). by using it online i actually see it more difficult for high ping users to transmit the bad ping onto my ping when having lfs strobe running. i could be wrong, but thats my experience actually.which is why i sometimes use strobe on TC.for no apparent reason to other users.

reference to 2019 thread:
https://www.lfs.net/forum/post/1948289#post1948289

Quote from THE WIZARD DK :well mostly when i asked people who got a high ping they are telling me they are on wireless and whatnot. so perhaps theres the issue. people simply dont use good connections...

Quote from THE WIZARD DK :
maybe yours is okay. i dont remember seing you with a high ping. but nonetheless ALOT of people do and on full server it does cause unnecessary lag. mostly i mean people on wireless from other continents than Europe.
one guy from AUS came to server. lagged out mostly before he even left garage. logged in again and the same, multiple times. this caused heavy lag to the server.
later he told me he was just lazy to plug his LAN cable in. thats more what i mean with this issue.

this just had me thinking.
would LFS be able to see if one logs in on LAN or wireless? and would server owners be able to exclude wireless if so ? That i think could solve alot in itself for many. that way server owners can exclude the unstabile connections so packets can flow more fluently.

Ex:
a race server having excluded wireless during a race.
when race is over it switch to practice mode. wireless back on for people to practice.
but during race a chat message could show those trying to login from wireless:
wireless detected, please log in from LAN. (or something).

EDIT2:
i just noticed i did not have Nvidia ultra low latency applied to LFS. could be interesting to make that test one more time. it seems to give me 100 more Fps ingame. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YX-hKAoOaFk
Quote from mbutcher :Flame reminded me of a small feature request I made in a VR demo video I made a couple of years ago surrounding the VR keyboard (@2:20). I wonder whether you could move it, or give the option to move it around (maybe directional arrows next to it like the mirror adjustment gimble?)

Just jumping on the tweaks bandwagon here. Cheers.

The problem with the virtual keyboard location is, other dialogs.

All the normal dialogs share a top point and the vkb was placed above that. It's hard to reposition the other dialogs as you can see in the attached image. There is also a search dialog, confirmation dialog etc.

The only thing that comes to mind is if the vkb could have its top at ordinary dialog height, if there is no other dialog visible. It sounds easy enough though I haven't looked in the code yet. But would that be of any use?
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lfs_00000011.jpg
it's very cool to have contact with the devs, really.

i waiting a long time to improve these little requests, i try it now...

we manage races on the GUM GARAGE and and little tools improvements will be really cool like :

1- possibility for race/server admin to adjuste the time for Stop&Go penalty (very usefull in case of reset available in enduro races to "pay" he instantly repair of the car)

2 - possibility to exactly know the start mode actually set ! random, reverse or standard . i think it will not extrem difficult to display an information like quali time or laps in the grid screen.
on the track this information could be display with the "msg" form on the top left

3- i really wish the possibility in future to adjust the speed time for day to night ! imagine begining a race on dayligth to finish at night !

4- possibility for race manager to apply speed limiter to ALL racers (especially on aval races to simulate safety car / yellow flag

5- ... or a IA safety car , called with a single key.

hope you read that little requests Scawen !

Best Regards
Quote from Scawen :The problem with the virtual keyboard location is, other dialogs.

Face -> palm I should've realised that's why.

Quote from Scawen :The only thing that comes to mind is if the vkb could have its top at ordinary dialog height, if there is no other dialog visible. It sounds easy enough though I haven't looked in the code yet. But would that be of any use?

If this is possible, I would be in favour. Could even be given its own layout option: Dialog layout [fixed|centred] (idea attached).

Maybe I should also take this time to remind you of the space click issue I always run into while typing on my actual keyboard in VR while in text-entry mode. While typing with the chat dialog open, sometimes the gaze-cursor can trigger ok/cancel/specials when typing and pressing space, which means I have to make sure the crosshair isn't anywhere near the dialog, which just feels (and looks) ridiculous!
Attached images
dialog-suggestion.jpg
about drifting with GTR, isnt better make a "D1GP" version from XR?


you will can fit tyres, steerlock, a huge engine everything you said on first post, Scawen
Quote from Bose321 :I wouldn't really call 190ms any way near OK. Anything above 100 is pretty horrible in most games. Hell, if I go above 50 something is wrong.

How do other racing games handle these super high pings?

Generally, through sophisticated prediction code.

Taking iRacing as an example, it runs a simplified remote client physics engine on the local client to predict the positions of remote client cars. When it receives remote client positional and steering input updates from the server in a sufficiently timely fashion, these are passed into the remote client physics engine and factored alongside such considerations as track geometry and typical driving line. Although simplified, there's quite a lot factored in that engine; it has been steadily improved over time.

For iRacing, the default is to retrospectively patch remote client positions in the replay files, provided that the required (frame reference) server packet is received within one second or so of realtime, otherwise the patching code gives up and the predicted position is retained in the replay. The default can be changed to switch patching off, in which case the replay will replicate what was seen by the local client driver during the live race, i.e. with all remote client car positions from the prediction code. Some drivers prefer this, but it generally leads to less smooth animation when viewing replays; patched replays are generally smoother and that's one of the reasons that feature was implemented as the default.

Dealing with latency and packet loss is a very hard software engineering problem and there are many performance trade-offs and challenges, as Scawen has already noted. Current sims are generally much better at this than older generation sims, e.g. Grand Prix Legends, to choose a random example.
So, in another words is not likely we will have the same smoothness level (seen in other modern sims) in LFS? I really wish Scawen could come up with some nice solution toward this. Shrug
I would like to suggest something about the changes made with F12 menu during pitstops.

When you are changing tyre pressures with F12 menu for a pitstop and you change the compounds or change a worn tyre to a new one, it still takes extra time saying setup changes. So, it would be nice if no extra time is spent on pits when getting new tyres fitted.

Also it would be nice if we can set a strategy preset before race for the changes in pitstop other than fuel and wear threshold. Like which compound, pressures, downforce etc for each stop. Maybe provision for multiple stops too. Essentially if you have sticking to the strategy plan you set before race, you don't need to fiddle around with F12 menu while you are racing on track. Maybe a strategy tab in Garage if its too much UI clutter?

Not sure if anybody else has felt the need for any of these. Sorry if it's only me.
Quote from redbot_ :I would like to suggest something about the changes made with F12 menu during pitstops.

When you are changing tyre pressures with F12 menu for a pitstop and you change the compounds or change a worn tyre to a new one, it still takes extra time saying setup changes. So, it would be nice if no extra time is spent on pits when getting new tyres fitted.

Also it would be nice if we can set a strategy preset before race for the changes in pitstop other than fuel and wear threshold. Like which compound, pressures, downforce etc for each stop. Maybe provision for multiple stops too. Essentially if you have sticking to the strategy plan you set before race, you don't need to fiddle around with F12 menu while you are racing on track. Maybe a strategy tab in Garage if its too much UI clutter?

Not sure if anybody else has felt the need for any of these. Sorry if it's only me.

+1
Quote from mbutcher :
Maybe I should also take this time to remind you of the space click issue I always run into while typing on my actual keyboard in VR while in text-entry mode. While typing with the chat dialog open, sometimes the gaze-cursor can trigger ok/cancel/specials when typing and pressing space, which means I have to make sure the crosshair isn't anywhere near the dialog, which just feels (and looks) ridiculous!

This. I use real keyboard to type while in VR and i always accidentally click the buttons when pressing space.
Quote from Scawen :

Drifters have asked for the maximum steering lock to be increased and to allow the full range of tyres, for the XRR and FZR cars. We received a request to allow up to 65 degrees steering angle but it seems a bit much to me. Those two cars have double wishbone suspension so that seems to put a limit on the amount a wheel could turn before part of the wheel hits part of a wishbone with disastrous results. I don't have any real world reference for what maximum lock is achievable by drifters in real life.

I know examples of suspensions that allow you to make large steering lock angles, at least 60 degrees is possible.
"Offering over 60 degrees of steering lock, the near zero ackerman Wisefab BMW kit provides more steering angle than you will ever need, without hitting the lower arms like you would on a normal high steering angle BMW set up."

https://www.wisefab.co.uk/wisefab-bmw-e30.html#:~:text=Offering%20over%2060%20degrees%20of,steering%20angle%20BMW%20set%20up.

https://youtu.be/m8IRrcOTFgY?t=93

https://youtu.be/REQEJe5NbxM
Attached images
Pbbe58uRFL4.jpg
That steering rack sure would make parallel parking easier 😂
Thanks all for the comments. I'll go through this thread and make two separate sheets of notes about compatible and incompatible changes I could possibly do.

I'm not replying to everyone but will check the posts again. It's supposed to be a really quick update as I have to get back to the development version. But some changes are important and they all carry through to the development version anyway so it's worth trying to get a few things right.

Quote from redbot_ :I would like to suggest something about the changes made with F12 menu during pitstops.

When you are changing tyre pressures with F12 menu for a pitstop and you change the compounds or change a worn tyre to a new one, it still takes extra time saying setup changes. So, it would be nice if no extra time is spent on pits when getting new tyres fitted.
...

That sounds kind of like a bug. Not a bug in code but in logic. So it would be good to look at that. I don't think I can go into the planned strategy system at the moment.

Quote from Tazka :This. I use real keyboard to type while in VR and i always accidentally click the buttons when pressing space.

I have had this "pressing space in chat mistakenly presses buttons using VR crosshairs" on my notes for a while so would like to sort it out. I'm struggling to think of a solution though. Sometimes people actually type a word or two with the virtual keyboard (because they can't see the real keyboard) so I think VR click needs to be active by default when text box opens.

But when typing with the real keyboard, that's when the space bar becomes as issue. I remember a suggestion to have a small minimum time to hold the VR click to make it act but I think that would make the VR space bar too much trouble. It needs to be fast. And don't really want it working differently when there is a chat box open.

How about if "VR click by space bar" could be temporarily disabled if you start typing with the real keyboard, when the chat dialog is open? Maybe as soon as the first character is added to the text by a real keypress?

That sounds like it could work, as you can press enter or escape to get out of the dialog. So usually you don't need VR click at that point. But you might want to click other buttons on the chat dialog, so maybe the VR click function should switch on again after a few seconds? Or should it be manually enabled somehow if you want to use VR click again? Or do we rely on the mouse (or assigned controller button) for clicks, if "VR click by space bar" has been disabled by typing on the real keyboard and don't switch on "VR click by space bar" again at all until the dialog exits?
Quote from Scawen :
I have had this "pressing space in chat mistakenly presses buttons using VR crosshairs" on my notes for a while so would like to sort it out. I'm struggling to think of a solution though. Sometimes people actually type a word or two with the virtual keyboard (because they can't see the real keyboard) so I think VR click needs to be active by default when text box opens.

But when typing with the real keyboard, that's when the space bar becomes as issue. I remember a suggestion to have a small minimum time to hold the VR click to make it act but I think that would make the VR space bar too much trouble. It needs to be fast. And don't really want it working differently when there is a chat box open.

How about if "VR click by space bar" could be temporarily disabled if you start typing with the real keyboard, when the chat dialog is open? Maybe as soon as the first character is added to the text by a real keypress?

That sounds like it could work, as you can press enter or escape to get out of the dialog. So usually you don't need VR click at that point. But you might want to click other buttons on the chat dialog, so maybe the VR click function should switch on again after a few seconds? Or should it be manually enabled somehow if you want to use VR click again? Or do we rely on the mouse (or assigned controller button) for clicks, if "VR click by space bar" has been disabled by typing on the real keyboard and don't switch on "VR click by space bar" again at all until the dialog exits?

I always use mouse for clicks, so for me personally the option to disable "VR click by space bar" or the ability to reconfig the hotkey to some other button on keyboard would be the best solution.

But if there's people that use the crosshair+space in the menu and the real keyboard to type messages with that doesn't solve the problem for them.

Other than that it's by far the best VR experience i've had in a racing simulator so good job with that.
Quote from Scawen :
Quote from Redbot :
When you are changing tyre pressures with F12 menu for a pitstop and you change the compounds or change a worn tyre to a new one, it still takes extra time saying setup changes. So, it would be nice if no extra time is spent on pits when getting new tyres fitted.

That sounds kind of like a bug. Not a bug in code but in logic. So it would be good to look at that. I don't think I can go into the planned strategy system at the moment.

Related to this, from a realism point of view; when changing tyre compounds, LFS currently forces damage repair. This isn't particularly realistic for minor damage - like slightly worn shocks - and forces longer pitstops than probably should be necessary.
Quote from Tazka :the ability to reconfig the hotkey to some other button on keyboard would be the best solution.

I would be happy with that.
Some "little" things:

For example: Some pre-configured racing combinations like GTR races or road vehicle races or, or, or (we old users can do that, but beginners lose themselves in the OptionsMonster LFS)

Or some preconfigured routes / cars combinations that have proven to be particularly suitable.

Or the possibility of holding a championship with a point system.

In short, some interesting racing pre-configurations.
Quote from mbutcher :I would be happy with that.

Quote from THE WIZARD DK :would be GREAT to have a feature outside VR settings to completely remove the Virtual keyboard,for non VR users.
or could "key" it on user defined button. just a mention as it really can ruin a race when it pops up.

i think that could work for kb users too with a hotkey. +1

Quote from Aleksandr_124rus :
https://youtu.be/m8IRrcOTFgY?t=93

erhm.. that was new :/

Attached images
yt.jpg
Quote from MacedoSTI :about drifting with GTR, isnt better make a "D1GP" version from XR?

you will can fit tyres, steerlock, a huge engine everything you said on first post, Scawen

No need to make a new car. We already have a few. The problem is that only XRT and "FZ5" are the actually acceptable for drifting. RB4 lacks lock(and has a bit slower steering wheel, but that's ok), LX lacks lock and are not really made for drifting even with a very well balanced setup, also LACKS LOCK! And of course GTRs don't have lock either, nor tyres. If lock goes to like 55 for all of them and GTRs get "street" tyres we get way more options to have some fun.
Increasing the steering lock to 55 or more on most cars. Yes, please!

Unlocking all tyre options for all cars. Yes!

Scawen, consider to give us the option to increase the horse power while you're at it. Wink

Yes, i play this game sideways. Tongue
This thread is closed

Possible changes for a semi-compatible update
(170 posts, closed, started )
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