Quote from sinbad :

It really makes me wonder just how much engine sounds influence people.

a LOT.

Quote from KiDCoDEa :

a LOT.

Yep, GTR even had me fooled for a few laps. Then I noticed I was always shifting much too late because the sound wasn't giving me the information I needed.

Odd, but a lot of people are willing to endure that horrible BLAT BLAT BLAT of the on/off canned sound just so they can hear a screaming engine.

Quote from DodgeRacer :

That would be because you paid for S1 and S2 at the same time, if you had s1 already it would have only been 22$ for S2, which is hugely cheaper than most games with an expansion pack (in example sim city, its normaly 40$ for the base, then say another 20$ for the addon pack, whereas lfs is 20$ for the "base" and 20$ for the "addon", so yes, r factor is cheaper, but you are only paying for 1 game, in essance you paid for lfs plus an addon pack. I hope this make sense.

That's an interesting point of view.

I see S3 as being the LFS game, and S2 S1 as decontented versions. IMO it's quite expensive if you consider that in some ways LFS has a lot less tangible content than its competitors, at a higher price. It is a niche product, with a niche product price point.

Not trying to bash LFS. Just stating my point of view. I've been a demo player for quite some time, and I'm almost ready to buy. Almost. I'm cheap, and can only justify spending on one game. The price is one obstacle, and rFactor is another. If/when I do buy LFS, it better damn well be the best, most realistic, and a well supported sim with longevity as well as content.

I'm willing to wait a little bit longer, and hear some more opinions before I make my decision. Personally I love LFS. As objective and clear-minded as I try to be, I secretly want LFS to be better than rFactor.

Quote from deggis :

but the track layouts and car info is on the rFactor website.

where ? i just cant find it ... 9cough9 badly designed website 9cough9

Magic, i cant understand how you dont feel it, you and i know that some issues, specially at low speed still exist in LFS... but rfactor is the other way around...at slow speeds it almost feels good....at high speeds its completely unrealistic...completely..... just grab the FOX (best car for me phisics wise and fun wise in LFS) and the Trainer in rFACTOR wich should be similar.... theres no way it can even be compared....FOX is light years ahead...

I dont say that rFACTOR is not a good sim, it is.... but its nothing near the amount of hype and holy graal everyone was mumbling about....i even think now in the ASS review of it and i think it was really a ASS super hyped up review.... if this is the Revolution then thank you but no thank you.....

Most of the feeling you have in GTR (except you now can catch slides....uau...big improvement...they added an if, if car starts to slide and user turns wheel on oposite way, please do react and dont snap always...

Regarding the Multiplayer i congratulate ISI because it is really a step forward regarding to what they had before, it feels nice now... but LFS gave that step 3 years ago....

Track layouts, why the hell everything is narrow.....

Stuttering....this one im not even gonna coment on.... Scawen once stated that he was no directx expert...dam.... i imagine if he was..... LFS maxed out on my portable computer never (and when i say never its really never) stutters... rFACTOR on not even near good quality graphics and DX7 stutters ramdomly.... exactly like F1 2000,2001,2002, 99-02,GTR and GT Legends.....

Sound...well....sound... i have to say that the sampling may be good and sound better most of the times then in LFS, nothing that GTR didnt gave us already and better, alot of gear and metal sounds...cool.... now pass near a wall....sound is the same...not perfectly done Echoes like in LFS (maybe because with samples its alot harder), blast thru a straight in the trainer at 190 km/h...not even a little shshowshh of wind...... still its sound more POWERFULL because its sampled....

Entering a server and seeing people on their own skins...LFS yes....rFACTOR....nope.... it does make a hell of a difference....

Did i mention how the tracks are horrid already....

theres so many other points i could keep enumerating that make LFS a better sim, but its pointless...in the end it comes all to the perception of each one of us of how it should be....

Ill play both because i play them all....but my love is still the same... LFS, not only because of what it is now, but specially because of what i can forsee ahead because of the people behind it......

And for those who can count regarding content...check how many tracks LFS has and Cars and how many rFACTOR has.....

The biggest point in rFACTOR is the modding comunity... and that, yes, it makes a hell of a difference because theres alot of talented people around that want to contribute with quality to it..... i still remeber the pleasure i had of driving a civic type r on RSRs ETCC mod for F1C, or in GTR giving a spins around a well modeled Estoril....BTW... tracks are much better in GTR.. wich uses a older engine....funny he...

Oh well...i hope all of them improve till we reach that sim racing nirvana we all want...

Peace

PS: Forgot to mention how everyone bashed LFS because the cockpits where poor..well...they are a little yes (compared to GTR or GTP), but FFS they are not those horrid things in rFACTOR, again modding can save it....

Quote from KiDCoDEa :

btw, have i ever said how much i love first-racing/iracing?

Do you know something I don't??

Graphics-wise, I'm looking forward to this. One direct link. Finally the superb texture quality that is needed to replace the original "mixed bag" ones.

I've been playing rF for a while now and really like it. (I have to laugh out load every time I see somebody whining about this or that not being exactly like they wanted it.) The physics model is like a cross between older ISI engines and GPL, which means that the flaws (IMO) of the older ISI stuff are mostly gone, and the driving feel has become nice and believable. It's not revolutionary at all, but it gets the job done.

I'm sure that rF doesn't even come close to LFS or nK Pro in terms of what's actually calculated, but as a completed package, it's nicely put together - there are no annoying flaws in the physics engine at all, which is more then you can say about LFS S2 in its present alpha state.

Frankly, I don't understand why people are being so defensive around here. It sounds as if some of you are trying incredibly hard to find fault with rF no matter what. I think that approach is totally unnecessary; I think LFS will very likely be superior to rFactor in terms of physics before long and I'm very glad I bought S2 to be a part of the process in a small, tiny way. (I do wish Scawen would talk a bit more freely about the physics. E.g., I still don't know if LFS calculates tire response dynamically or not, but I digress.) Likewise, I'm glad I've got rF because it's a nice, mostly finished product.

They're both great!
:grouphug:

I still prefer LFS over it...I had to try it b/c of the hype and the future mods that will be released....after playing it for the last 12 hours or so and going back to LFS...LFS simply feels better and works better...it is not as resource hungry on a computer and in my opinion just works better...At least LFS states openly it is still in its Alpha version (which still beat the supposed final version of rF). I simply think ISI marketed it like a average movie with alot of hype but bottom line its NOT all that. Looks very cartoonish. The physics for the f1 cars is questionable. Alot of ppl seeing it as simply a F1C with better netcode...I will give it that the online play is good. The fan crowd seems to have very mixed opinions of it at their forum. Some are simply upset while others are in denial...bottom line...we all paid $40.00 for a average product that is relying on the community to develop it further so ISI can move on and develop their next great game.

Quote from Silly :

Frankly, I don't understand why people are being so defensive around here. It sounds as if some of you are trying incredibly hard to find fault with rF no matter what. I think that approach is totally unnecessary; I think LFS will very likely be superior to rFactor in terms of physics before long and I'm very glad I bought S2 to be a part of the process in a small, tiny way. (I do wish Scawen would talk a bit more freely about the physics. E.g., I still don't know if LFS calculates tire response dynamically or not, but I digress.) Likewise, I'm glad I've got rF because it's a nice, mostly finished product.

They're both great!
:grouphug:

I don`t think anyone is being defencive around here at all, and nowhere in any of my post have I said that rFactor, was a bad sim. I`m just letting people know that it isn`t what it was hyped up to be.

As far as the modding of rFactor, take a look at the F1 mods. Most have never been completed, a lot of them just wasn`t very good, and the three or four mods that was great took how long to be completed?

I just started playing S2 since the end of June. I was bored with GPL and NASCAR 03,(played them for years) so I bought S2 for something to tide me over till rFactor was out.

Well, S2 took me by suprise, (I didn`t try the S2 demo) I got more of a sim than what I was expecting. Knocked my socks off. rFactor didn`t do that, and thats the one that I thought would.

I`m glad your enjoying both sims and you are getting your moneys worth out of rFactor. :^) I just didn`t think I was. I also am not seeing anyone on this form whining about rFactor, just people stating their opinions about what they like or don`t, just like you did. :^)

I think these simple words sum it up for me.....

IT'S NOT AS GOOD AS LIVE FOR SPEED

Its that simple, I spent most of this evening trying VERY hard to like rFactor, but I could'nt, someone said the tracks in rF feel alive and have bumps and LFS doesnt?, bloody hell you can't have run the UFR at FE Gold then, also in the real world, purpose built race tracks are reasonable smooth anyway.

The main difference between the 2 is that rFactor feels like a GAME and LFS feels like a SIM, LFS is a simulation of real driving, at it achieves this very well, rFactor looks to me like it was built to be a game rather than a sim and as such from either the inside or the outside it doesnt look or feel very real at all, take the Rhiez or whatever that little hatchback is called, go to the external view, and steer lock to lock, I have NEVER seen a car move about on its suspension so much from just moving the steering wheel.

As for the sounds, the only thing that rF has that LFS doesnt is tranmission whine, but as for the actual engine sounds, they are no better than LFS, in fact I can't believe how poor the rFactor trainer sounds.

Bottomline is, if you own and enjoy LFS there is no need, apart from maybe some of the nice looking mods that are coming for rF, to get rF.

Dan.

Quote from danowat :

Brought, Installed and played, and MY opinion?, its certainly no LFS beater......., I am not sure how this is gonna sound, but I'll say it anyway, it feels very "american", a bit brash, a bit gaudy....I dont know, it just doesnt feel "right".

I've only seen a bunch of screenshots but I got the same feeling, especially some of the in-car shots. For some reason I just immediately knew it was an american made game. Not saying it's necessarily a bad thing, just interesting we got the same feeling.

Plenty of LFS fanatics here (duh, it's their forum). I was wondering has there been any progress reports or info about the S2-not-alpha-but-full-with-new-features -version? Last thing I heard on the subject was that the Devs would take it a bit easy after alpha release.

Nothing is perfect.
See? As soon as there's a good mod team that's gonna release something for rF, that mod has chances of becoming the most interesting package (considering they release both new tracks and cars as the original content is really bland in rF).

On the other hand, LFS isn't far from getting things right, but the problem is that it lacks in detail almost everywhere. LFS needs more sounds for example. It would also be nice to have textured tires sidewalls and BOLTED wheels (which apparently are super-glued or stuck with magnets ATM). It might also be nice to get some people in the grandstands, assigned pitboxes and garages per racer, pitcrews, sounds, and maybe some physics fixes.
I'm not gonna change to rF for the moment, but LFS better take some leaps in areas that help the feeling of real things soon.
We're already there with our leagues and teams and skins and events. Now just need a more immersive feel

rFactor's great fun to play, but it'll never be a real sim like LFS. I bought it with that viewpoint and therefore am not disappointed. Sometimes LFS gets a bit much and I just want to play a "game". I bloody hate proper arcade games and I see rFactor as a happy medium... I can rag around in something fast with less frustration than LFS, but I at least have to work a bit to get it round the track. Of course... this gets boring after a while, so that's when I go back to LFS. Then when LFS starts to do my nut I switch to rFactor. Works well for me.

Quote from budabudabass :

rFactor's great fun to play, but it'll never be a real sim like LFS. I bought it with that viewpoint and therefore am not disappointed. Sometimes LFS gets a bit much and I just want to play a "game". I bloody hate proper arcade games and I see rFactor as a happy medium... I can rag around in something fast with less frustration than LFS, but I at least have to work a bit to get it round the track. Of course... this gets boring after a while, so that's when I go back to LFS. Then when LFS starts to do my nut I switch to rFactor. Works well for me.

When I am frustrated with LSF (rarely in demo, as the cars tend to behave quite well... still havent got below the 1:30 on BLGP though, so need to work on my setup...) I switch over ot RBR. Two tries on a rainy, muddy stage, and I am that frustrated, that LSF seems like holidays

Converning rFactor: Didn't like the old demo, but the ASS review made me curious. Still, Gonna wait for a demo to arrive, to see if I am going to buy it.

Anyways, going to buy my s2 license today, but using my bank account (4players.de), it will take till next week for me to join the pleasures of online competition...

all these confilcting opinions:nut: dunno who here knows what they are talking about. I hope they release another demo

Quote from Gabkicks :

all these confilcting opinions:nut: dunno who here knows what they are talking about. I hope they release another demo

I guess ALL of them know what they are talking about: their personal tastes
As I actually liked how GTR and GTL-Demo drive, I probably will invest in rFactor. I just don't like buying blindly, so I will wait for a demo...

EDIT: Just found out you can only buy per Credit Card (Paypal is also only usable wit a CC here in Austria...) so I won't get it. YAY, more time with LFS

Quote from spankmeyer :

Plenty of LFS fanatics here (duh, it's their forum). I was wondering has there been any progress reports or info about the S2-not-alpha-but-full-with-new-features -version? Last thing I heard on the subject was that the Devs would take it a bit easy after alpha release.

OMG, just cmon..they have been working like hell, dont you think they should have litle time off too? They could have been not to give us the Alpha, so please, give them a litle break

ya they deserve it alpha is a amazing work and we all hope to see some improvement in the final version.

rFactor is a good game for some fun sometimes, but it doesnt have the quality nor the fun as LFS.

Quote from Mattesa :

That's an interesting point of view.

I see S3 as being the LFS game, and S2 S1 as decontented versions. IMO it's quite expensive if you consider that in some ways LFS has a lot less tangible content than its competitors, at a higher price. It is a niche product, with a niche product price point.

hm compare it to EA's F1 sims or to papys NR series

you buy lets say NR2002 - and when NR2003 comes out, you do not automatically get the new physics and graphics features for free, you have to buy NR2003

same goes for allmost every other sports game - championship manager or the NHL/FIFA/NBA/Madden Football/PES series, it doesn'T matter

and also the arcade racers like NFS or race driver do it this way. if you bought TOCA/DTM race driver 1, you won't get the nice new graphics and changes to the physics for free with the release of the 2nd or 3rd of the series

LfS is the only game i know, that gets all the updated features for free (like graphics, physics, damage, tire model...) - and just the addon content has to be paid for (tracks and cars)

so if you look at it this way, it is a real bargain

LFS is the most fair game i know(and the best racing sim , normaly i would never buy a product that you must have a internet connection or make a telephone to customers support to activate it every time you format your HD or change something but the devs prove that they do exacly and honest what they say(with the keys every month e.t.c.) that does the trick for me unlike rfactor from what i read you have only 3 free unlock codes , no demo of full version yet and some misunderstanding about the price with VAT to uk customers , LFS is not try to get out the sim fast but complete from scratch ,gives quality not some improvements over a existing sim engine .
Mods will be great for lfs but it will ruin the multiplayer part a lot as we know it, that is what the flight sim IL-2 is doing well so players will enjoy the multi more every good efford for a new plane from community goes to the devs first so quality is ensured then released with a patch , of couse i'd like a track editor and car editor when S3 is released but everything is better for all if goes first to the devs and to be official released later so all will have the same game not hacks .
bye!

Quote from DasKlee :

so if you look at it this way, it is a real bargain

Now compare it with... everybody's favourite punching bag, GT4. 700 licensed cars, a large number of licensed tracks, and the most realistic graphics of any game period. There is a lot of content in GT4. I do understand that GT4 is the software equivalent of mass production, and economies of scale allow the producers to spend lots for development, yet keep the price of the product(relatively) low. It is $60 CAD. That is a bargain.

Too bad GT4 doesn't drive well though, and that's where LFS comes in. LFS S2 at $53 CAD does not match that level of content, and I'm not sure if S3 will either. By this logic I think rFactor is overpriced as well, but it has the mod community behind it, and they can do great things.

To me, the LFS developer's seemingly relentless pursuit of realism is what justifies the cost of LFS.

I want reassurance though, and reading these comparison threads is a good way to get reassurance.

Quote from Mattesa :

Now compare it with... everybody's favourite punching bag, GT4....

i can't compare it, because it'S a PS2 game and i do not own one

but even the GT series has the same scheme - you do not get the new graphics if you own GT1 once GT2, GT3 or GT4 comes out - you also do not get the new physics or other features, you have to buy every single copy

that's what i wanted to say with my comparison - i do not want to compare gameplay (how can i compare gameplay of LfS with madden football or championship manager) it was just and only related to the quote, that some people see it as one game costing 3 times 12 pounds or 3 times 18 euros - which is the wrong way to look at it in my eyes

when S1 came out, it wasn't worse than most of the games available at that time - thus it was real cheap. now even without getting a S2 license, you can upgrade your S1 game for free to all the new S2 innovations - you can't do that to any other game that age (at least not from the developers and without 3rd party mods) and you will be able to upgrade it to all S3 innovations, as soon as S3 is out (using soon related to the S3 release sounds strange to me *g*)

you're only forced to buy new licenses to get additional content

if this content is worth the 12 pounds/18 euros is up to everyone to decide (i think it is - that's why there is an S2 licensed under my name)

Yes, I do understand what you mean now. And it brings me a bit closer to getting that S2 license.