If my memory serves me right, Seat won it all on Curitiba last year as well. That track has been considered bad for BMW since they started using it, but I can't remember why.
Chevrolet has a brand new car, of course they are not competitive yet. Lada is on their first year as a factory team, of course they are not competitive yet.
If Seat still wins everything in the third round this year, then I will agree that they got an unfair advantage over the others, but until then...

Quote from danowat :

Some cars currently have ballast, I know that a certain BMW is ballasted due to them using a sequential gearbox.

That's a normal part of the technical regulations that sequentials are 30 (?) kg heavier than H-pattern cars.

I was there this time... Getting wet and all...

It was fun, but I think it almost always is when you watch it in person...
The Seat team made it look almost like a joke though...

The thing is that Curitiba is located 900m above sea level and that apparently makes it even worse for the non turbo cars. I read somewhere Farfus saying that because of the altitude the bmw engines lost about 10% of their power...

Also, I think being fwd cars, the Seat might benefit from slippery conditions. (I'm not sure on this one )

Quote from bahilsom :

The thing is that Curitiba is located 900m above sea level and that apparently makes it even worse for the non turbo cars. I read somewhere Farfus saying that because of the altitude the bmw engines lost about 10% of their power...

Thats actually a very good point, and one I hadn't really thought about that much.

Which brings me back to the balancing issues again, does this mean that the FIA need to look into harsher balancing when the altitude is high?

I don't know, from what I remember about the discussions last year about advantage at altitude, the commentators said how some tracks where advantage Turbo diesel and some advantage RWD petrol. Like it balances out over the year, but I'm not so sure.

Well we'll see Vain as the front row is now BMW. Surprised the heck out of me that Farfus and Priaulx stole the show from the Seats

Yup, suprised me too, fingers crossed for an exciting race

Typical run of people to want to ban good technology just because it's winning, but then, that's what Volkswagen/Audi are used to. Happened in BTCC with Quattro, and happened in Trans-Am with the 200 Quattro.
If you can't beat 'em, ban 'em. So for that reason I hold some respect for the FiA, and in the Seat TDi's inaugural season they weren't much more competitive than the rest of the field can't see the point of the complaints really, yea, the noise of a petrol engine generally is better than a diesel engine (even though it's debateable, Scania V8 is an awesome sounding diesel) but this is racing, it's not about the sound of the cars, it's about how blindingly quick your car can be with your own manufacturers technology.

Volkswagen have always made the best diesels, since the beginning of their use in VW road cars, it only makes sense that they can be competitive with their TDi in racing. Saying things like, "Yea but the diesel engines use a turbo." aren't comparative things to say since a diesel and petrol engine are in no way the same.

Quote from BlueFlame :

Saying things like, "Yea but the diesel engines use a turbo." aren't comparative things to say since a diesel and petrol engine are in no way the same.

That's the point.

You can't compare petrol and diesel in the way you could compare two engines of the same fuel by different factories because the only way they can be competitive is by allowing them to be built to very different rules and regulations, forced induction being the obvious one.
Which is why it doesn't work to mix them up. Who knows who is building the better engine, BMW or SEAT, the question becomes irrelevant because (as you say) the engines are in no way the same. The whole thing turns into a bit of a sham then, regulations have more influence on engine performance than the engineers ever could, probably. It doesn't encourage innovation when poor performance is "rewarded" with a regulations change in your favour.

Well Sinbad if you're going to be that specific, then nothing in this WORLD is comparable as even two identical plastic objects will be different in molecular structure and therefore incomparable. Diesel does have a place in motorsport, just because it's new and hasn't been around before doesn't mean it should be ousted. It's been said on this forum many times that Diesel engines are less responsive on the throttle as much as I agree with this general rule, it's somewhat invalid when TDi SEATs are kicking everyones ass in WTCC and the TDi Le Mans cars are not matched by any petrol car. Who cares if they sound ugly? It's racing, it's not about how the car sounds. Other manufacturers will either follow SEAT in diesel WTCC racing or just ban the Diesels from entering WTCC all together, afterall, if something is showing up your beautifully sounding petrol cars it needs to be banned.

rubbish first race, SEAT's proving they're scared of the BMW's cos they just smack them out of the way, was good to see Jorg and Andy pull some moves off to take out a couple of them stupid diesels

I agree, I've been to races and the sound of the car doesn't really mean much to me. If I were to chose between a noisy petrol series that has no racing compared to an all electric car series that has great racing I'd much rather watch or see the electric car series

Is there any free online stream for race 2?

i only saw race 2. exciting race and good work from BMW. they where much faster in turns and braking! only the diesel pulls away after the turns so it's basicly work for nothing i hope Yvan Muller gets a panalty for the sissy action he made.

@bleuflame/lizzardfolk: the diesel just doesnt fit WTCC, they are just to strong with there turbo's and torque. and racing issnt about unfair competition! great battle's, great sound, huge startgrids, lots of brands, NO diesel... thats racing!

and plz lizzardfolk.. don't you ever talk about electric cars again..!!!

EDIT:

a good thing for wtcc would be, use the same engine spec's that they will use in WRC 2010! s-2000 with turbo. i think it would be an open door for teams/ brands to make the step to WTCC or WRC! because the engine what is one of the biggest cost is the same. i would love to see OPEL, SKODA, FORD, VW, MG, PEUGEOT, FIAT in the WTCC and BMW, SEAT, LADA in WRC

great solution issn't it????

Quote from BlueFlame :

Well Sinbad if you're going to be that specific, then nothing in this WORLD is comparable as even two identical plastic objects will be different in molecular structure and therefore incomparable. Diesel does have a place in motorsport, just because it's new and hasn't been around before doesn't mean it should be ousted. It's been said on this forum many times that Diesel engines are less responsive on the throttle as much as I agree with this general rule, it's somewhat invalid when TDi SEATs are kicking everyones ass in WTCC and the TDi Le Mans cars are not matched by any petrol car. Who cares if they sound ugly? It's racing, it's not about how the car sounds. Other manufacturers will either follow SEAT in diesel WTCC racing or just ban the Diesels from entering WTCC all together, afterall, if something is showing up your beautifully sounding petrol cars it needs to be banned.

Where did I say there was no place at all for diesel in motor racing? Or that I'm against diesels being used because of how they sound?

Your first argument is ludicrous too, if you'd said something about fwd and rwd balancing being artificial also it would have been a bit more effective.

Quote from sinbad :

Where did I say there was no place at all for diesel in motor racing? Or that I'm against diesels being used because of how they sound?

Your first argument is ludicrous too, if you'd said something about fwd and rwd balancing being artificial also it would have been a bit more effective.

My arguement wasn't against you in particular, it was against the general populous. I was only suggesting that your article was somewhat sarcastic when you suggest that no two things can ever be identicle.

Not a great fan of Andy Priaulx but wanted him to win on the weekend. He came close to it in fairness! Somebody has to knock the Seat's off the top of the podium for once

Ok .What i missed? When we are having next race? i compleatly forgot about that

Quote from oldnavy :

Ok .What i missed? When we are having next race? i compleatly forgot about that

Next race will be in May

Ok, Pebula restored a bit of faith that this season isn't going to be a complete SEAT whitewash.

Both races were actually quite good (shock horror), the 2nd race being the better of the two.

It is a shame its only a two horse race (SEAT and BMW, hopefully Chevy will get back on it in a few races time) and would like to go back a couple of seasons ago when we had Alfa, Peugeot, Honda etc etc in the mix as well.

I can't see Lada doing anything other than propping up the rear of the grid, which is a shame.

Quote from danowat :

I can't see Lada doing anything other than propping up the rear of the grid, which is a shame.

Lada has old model since they couldn't make new one in time for '09 season, but from what I know they're planning change to a better (faster) model in this season already.

Chevy's engine unfortunately isn't as powerful as others, I think it will take them longer to find out general speed of Cruze, however it has a really big potential imo but noone simply brings to racing completely new car winning all races.

Also don't forget that these 2 rounds were ballast-free, so they'll get it for another race in Morocco which also can be another factor of changes in the field.

Pitty that it will now take more than a month for next race... pff. Really hoping that Chevy improves. I am visiting Brno at time of that race and I wanna see them competitive!

i heard this weekend on dutch television or internet there where 2 other brands interested in WTCC, Nissan and i thought Peugeot, but i don't know the second one for sure! someone else heard about this?

Well, there was Morocco race last weekend and Seat has been finally beaten in both races by Chevrolet. It's due of a ballast of course, but at least something new to watch. Just thought I'll bump this thread a bit. For some reason Chevrolet is really fast at streets, which is good for them. Next race is 17th May - Pau, France. Again street circuit, predictions are very positive for a very enjoyable race!

I love the way Menu thrashes the ar$e off that Chevy, no matter where he happens to find himself on the grid. Great driver

Quote from HVS5b :

I love the way Menu thrashes the ar$e off that Chevy, no matter where he happens to find himself on the grid. Great driver

Menu is a great driver and i hope before he retires from touring car racing that he can win the world championship because he's certainly worthy of it.