Hello everybody,

I tried iRacing for a short while (only the Pontiac) and I have to admit there is smth that makes if feel different than LFS. LFS is more complex I guess with respect to engine physics, but:
- FF seems more real in iRacing. It never releases totally when you lose grip, and it's not that ...elastic;
- you feel better the balancing of the car, and you can use it more to your advantage;
- less forgiving than LFS if you get even slightly off the tarmac;
- damage somewhat nicer, but not too much;

Can you add smth else?

Anyway the pricing is ridiculous, even if it were miles ahead LFS(which is not) it wouldn't be worth it.

I had the opportunity to try and first impression to the physics of tires - to behave differently when they lose grip

I find that most of your points are quite the opposite for me.

The FF in LFS is very realistic, having actualy been in a slide before I can definately say that the steering does become completely loose, and it will counter on its own to some degree.

Going off the track with two wheels isn't all that uncommon, and will not be unforgiving unless you don't know how to handel it, I have never once spun because a wheel or two whent off the track.

The damage model on LFS will eventualy be a very realistic and detailed one, we just have to wait.


iRacing is crazy because they don't expect to sell alot of the game, so they raise the price to compensate for low sales. Its much like alot of other software that isn't expected to sell alot.

You forget that iRacing is much more complete than LFS, because LFS is still a beta project at the moment. When it's made final expect (or rather, hope!) that some of these improvements can be made to the tyre model and etc.

The FF is fine in LFS as it is.

LFS is probably about right in terms of realism if you go off the track. Do it in a normal car and there's no problem at all... try it in one of the formula cars and unless you're incredibily careful and precise in your inputs, the car will spin.

Bump sounds carrying over through suspension when driving over kerbs.

Quote from TAYLOR-MANIA :

Although it's relatively close, i'm not sure if it's the force feedback in iRacing that i'd like to see LFS 'borrow'... i think it's the road surface.

Exactly, the tracks in LFS is way too perfect - or should I say - some tracks needs to have 3d matching the 2d textures. Its the details that makes nK, RBR and iRacing feel so good.

The overall shape of the tracks are very well, nice camber at the apex giving a grip bonus for hitting it perfectly etc. Its just that the tracks are made to run on what is now called historic computers :-)

A bit OT (iRacing) but the offroad tracks in LFS realy needs alot more polygons, its my oppinion thats where Scavier could gain the most per hour spent. (Less polygon bumps and a touch of graveltrap feel would be sweet)

Since its fantacy tracks, the unsmootheness could be added by mathematic functions.

Quote from TAYLOR-MANIA :

Also, another aspect ....

Interesting idea... but majority propably will not like it . Training lessons are not too difficult, and if You cant pass them then... well... You are not suited for the track .Yeah... I know FF in LFS is pretty good, but... yeah... most affortable wheels have too slow ff so the wheel doesn't counter quickly enough, and fighting it is also kinda... dull. Iracing offers quiet "action-packed" ff, it feels great and sooooo alive. In my opinion the best thing in IRacing(tracks are the second best thing).

Stupid thread imo, lfs shouldn't borrow anything

Quote from Tomba(FIN) :

Stupid thread imo, lfs shouldn't borrow anything

go be a superficial bitch on your own thread, Tomba.

Ok im probably gonna get flamed for saying this but i gotta say the FFB in LFS is....well crap tbh

iRacing and netKar Pro have much better FFB imo, you can feel what the car is doing alot more.

Even rFactor with the Realfeel plugin setup correctly is right on LFS tail

This lack of "feel" is the reason why i haven't fired up LFS in a long time!

I think maybe after the new patch some new FFB would be nice, LFS already has the best multiplayer by a long shot and it's not far behind in the physic's department.

Although i have had some funny LFS moment's where the car just decide's to spin

Quote from mclarenmatt :

This lack of "feel" is the reason why i haven't fired up LFS in a long time!

I think maybe after the new patch some new FFB would be nice, LFS already has the best multiplayer by a long shot and it's not far behind in the physic's department.

I think this is a problem dependent on your wheel and not on LFS. With my G25 @ 100% strength in the profiler and 60-70, it gets intense when the FZR loses rear grip...

What do you mean by LFS is not far behind in the physics dept ?

maclarenmatt. The really good config is like that

http://img110.imageshack.us/im ... 35/configuracing25za9.jpg

Try that and after say if you have better feeling, because if you say that rFactor FF is better than LFS, or you have a problem with you wheel/drivers or have a distortion perception of reality

Quote from Napalm Candy :

Try that and after say if you have better feeling, because if you say that rFactor FF is better than LFS, or you have a problem with you wheel/drivers or have a distortion perception of reality

Read what i wrote again, i didn't say it was better

I said rFactor with the correct RealFeel setting's can get close to LFS sometime's.

Also it's not my G25 setting's i have checked them before - i just think LFS FFB doesn't allow you to feel the car aswell as iRacing or netKar Pro does

i'd like the bumpy roads...

Quote from mclarenmatt :

Ok im probably gonna get flamed for saying this but i gotta say the FFB in LFS is....well crap tbh

iRacing and netKar Pro have much better FFB imo, you can feel what the car is doing alot more.

Even rFactor with the Realfeel plugin setup correctly is right on LFS tail
...
This lack of "feel" is the reason why i haven't fired up LFS in a long time!

:bananadea

There you go.

Lemme explain why. I think you're confusing LFS's lack of "FF Friction" as being uncommunicative. The steering is too light on all the cars in LFS, and it feels less really dull that way.

In terms of communicating what the car is doing, particularly feeling oversteer start to build up through a corner and then finally breaking loose and counter steering, I think LFS does it a bit better than NKP and way way way better than iRacing.

LFS needs something like FF Friction to give more effort to the steering.

Quote from Mattesa :

:bananadea

There you go.

Lemme explain why. I think you're confusing LFS's lack of "FF Friction" as being uncommunicative. The steering is too light on all the cars in LFS, and it feels less really dull that way.

In terms of communicating what the car is doing, particularly feeling oversteer start to build up through a corner and then finally breaking loose and counter steering, I think LFS does it a bit better than NKP and way way way better than iRacing.

LFS needs something like FF Friction to give more effort to the steering.

Sound's like a good explanation/idea.

It wouldn't take much im sure to make the FFB that bit better, i just think atm it's one of the weaker point's of LFS

Quote from mclarenmatt :

Sound's like a good explanation/idea.

It wouldn't take much im sure to make the FFB that bit better, i just think atm it's one of the weaker point's of LFS

I don't know what you guys need, but I never found the steering of the LFS to be "light"...
Just take the formula cars, and as you build speed through the track, steering with the aerodynamism gets funky sometimes...

Even with a really oversteery setup for drifting, you can still feel what the car's steering wheel wants to do on its own, and the effect is quite heavy.

^yeah. i agree. but lfs can always improve.

Quote from kill_em_all :

Can you add smth else?

Most of the points you listed are just plain realism improvements that have been planned for some time already, and that iRacing hasn't really 'invented' per se.

So it wouldn't be correct to say LFS has borrowed them from iRacing.

E.g. if LFS added shadows to the car interiors, you would have a hard time proving that iRacing has 'invented shadows' and LFS borrowed from them. OTOH if LFS would introduced a league/pickup racing hybrid then you would be right to say iRacing had inspired LFS.

Quote from mclarenmatt :

It wouldn't take much im sure to make the FFB that bit better, i just think atm it's one of the weaker point's of LFS

I'm right with you. The FFB in LFS is just so poor compared to iRacing and nKPro. I really am having problems enjoying LFS now because of it.

I took part in the DoP 24hr race at the weekend. After having played a lot of nKPro recently it took an absolute age to get used to what the FFB in LFS is trying to tell you.
In iRacing and nKPro it's completely instinctive, you instantly know what the car is doing. With LFS you have to drive the cars a lot and get used to what the FFB is telling you, rather than it being completely natural like the other two.

Partially vice versa. LFS and nKP have good FFB (in that order), iRacing merely has passable FFB compared to real cars. But I think a better track surface would highlight how good LFS's FFB actually is. nKP is a bit too numb, as though the steering rack is filled with treacle, whilst iRacing is... I don't really know how to describe it, but it wasn't much like a real car to me.

But I certainly don't want horrid driver safety ratings in LFS as standard. CTRA use them, and I have no desire to take part in a system like that, so I don't - I have a choice. But I don't want it forced on me so that I can't play with the better drivers simply because I haven't done many miles. CTRA is one of the reasons I've stopped playing LFS regularly actually.

Heh, what don't you like about CTRA Tristan?

As I wrote above, the fact that I have to earn to race with better people. The people that I've raced (and beaten ) since 2003. I have no desire to be stuck with the idiots on the lower servers to somehow prove that I have a brain. Most people use CTRA, and therefore the people I like to race are now in the top catagories.

I just can't be bothered to spend the time to get there when I want a quick pickup race with someone I've spotted on LFSWorld as being online. So for the 25 minutes per month that I have free to race LFS I just go onto a demo server anonymously and beat everyone. Which isn't all that much fun.

Quote from NightShift :

Most of the points you listed are just plain realism improvements that have been planned for some time already, and that iRacing hasn't really 'invented' per se.

So it wouldn't be correct to say LFS has borrowed them from iRacing.

E.g. if LFS added shadows to the car interiors, you would have a hard time proving that iRacing has 'invented shadows' and LFS borrowed from them. OTOH if LFS would introduced a league/pickup racing hybrid then you would be right to say iRacing had inspired LFS.

NightShift you're right, if tou take it literally. But I didn't mean LFS has to copy anything, my suggestion was that at some chapters iRacing seemed more real. But as i didn't drive on a real track, I wasn't sure what is closer to reality in those aspects, therefore I posted the thread.That's all.

Anyway thanks everybody for your views.

Quote from tristancliffe :

But I think a better track surface would highlight how good LFS's FFB actually is.

Yep LFS would definitely benefit from that. And something else which also helps enjoying FFB in LFS is...

Quote from Mattesa :

The steering is too light on all the cars in LFS, and it feels less really dull that way.

...a low FFB strength setting. I've driven my first few months around 50% and then went down to about 30% because it feels so much more nuanced to me.