The online racing simulator
Tesla Roadster
(67 posts, started )
The trouble about quoting the Prius is that it's an epic fail - it's not any greener than a conventional car. It uses more energy per unit to produce, and more energy per unit to dispose of afterwards.

I'm not totally against alternative fuels at all. It's just that I don't agree that half-hearted, poorly executed attempts at them (solar powered, hybrids, electrics) do anything to help the problem. We're running out of fossil fuels (if you believe the scare mongering). So we need something to replace it. Batteries don't, directly (though, of course, they could be powered by nuclear power stations, but there isn't the nuclear programme requried to do that, whilst renewables are just gimmicks and can't produce the required power). Hybrids might slow the process down a tiny tiny tiny bit, but it's hardly worth bothering about, and the increase fuel needed to make them in the first place probably destroys all credibility they might have had. Solar isn't viable for cars - too expensive, too fragile, and what's more not all that great for the environment either (though not as bad as a few years ago).

The thing to do is find a different SOURCE of energy, not attempt to use what we've got more efficiently (because those gains are, in the whole world, miniscule). Nuclear has a LOT of good points with very few drawbacks, but isn't really suitable at the current time to personal (as opposed to personnel) transport. Hydrogen works at both the small and the large scale, so is likely to win the race at the moment in the very long term. Other technologies will come and go - some will be better than others. But to say that Hybrids are even remotely greener than a nice V12 carburetted engine is just silly.
I don't like how pure matter of taste is being turned into a debate.

I just don't like electric cars, never gonna like them. I don't care if electric car does 0-100 in 1 seconds, it's still boring for me.

Racing cars make me feel something in my heart, electric cars don't do that.

If someday there will be a popular electric cars championship, it may attract people, but I know I'm not one of the people watching it.

If someone would let me choose between two cars, oldskool Escort mk2 with 1600 crossflow engine with twin 40's making 100bhp or a modern electric-super-car with the most awesome performance and everything, I would definitely choose the Escort and even have more fun driving it.

I can't fully describe a so called "proper car" there's no words for it, but I know my heart tells me what is a one.
Quote from Vinnylegends :Chris, Youre and R3DMAN's reply's are just completely useless.
Since when do we say that Obama will become a good president but he cant because hes a Newb. Thats just weird guys. Having a good pair of brains and respecting the work of the devs and being happy enough with a Scirocco doesnt relate that i joined the community in Jule.
Really guys. Think before you speak.

I never said i dont recpect the devs I l;ove their work why are u saying things I never said?
Its just i can somehwat understand the frusttration but at the same time popel take LFS way to serious.
If i liturly typed that i dislike LFS WICH I DON'T the u could quite and take a pis aat me but what u are doing now is just below the bar dude.
So please for the love of god don't make it look like i said things i DID NOT SAY!!!

So how dare u insulting me and since when did I say anything about obama.
So pleas think before you speak yourself to!!
A Prius might be considered eco friendly if you dont consider the amount of energy and waste to make the the thing in the first place.

Batteries just dont cut it at this time and the cost to the environment disposing of them is horrific (there full of bad shit guys).

While they keep pumping that black stuff out of the ground there will never be a great leap forward , not to mention i,m 45 and i have waiting for flying cars all my life as promised by many a tv show
Can we get lerts to forget about pendulums, and design a flux capacitor instead?
Quote from tristancliffe :Can we get lerts to forget about pendulums, and design a flux capacitor instead?

We could try that but what does that thing actualy run on?
Quote from tristancliffe :The thing to do is find a different SOURCE of energy, not attempt to use what we've got more efficiently (because those gains are, in the whole world, miniscule).

While I agree on the first part of this sentence, the nature of research is such that you don't really know when a new "green" energy source is going to be found and then industrialized to the point it can be used in everyday life.

The problem is nuclear is that, AFAICT, fusion reactors can't sustain themselves yet, and fission, if you account for the decommissioning/security-related costs, is a complete failure unless you externalize those by placing the plants in some developing country when you can buy the security bodies cheap and then dig a hole under some kindergarten to hide the radioactive waste

The savings coming from the use of more efficient engines and cars, and alternative energies are buying us more time to find something else.

Regarding the Prius TCO issue, manufacturing cars is indeed very energy intensive but I wouldn't be so sure that the Prius is significantly worse than a less efficient vehicle. That however wouldn't address the problem with public health costs soaring because of high pollution (and noise) levels in urban centers.

Quote from tristancliffe : But to say that Hybrids are even remotely greener than a nice V12 carburetted engine is just silly.

LOL, this could easily end up in someone's sig
Quote from Chrisuu01 :We could try that but what does that thing actualy run on?

Pendulum = Gravity

Flux Capacitor = Old banana skins and Pepsi

Lerts = Drugs, alcohol and spending too much time on his own
You people not liking electric cars, have you driven the Tesla? I have, and yes, its shitty build quality (but so is an elise!), it weights way too much for its size, and it has very limited range.. but it still is fantastic.

The feeling when it accelerates can't be described. You get supercar-acceleration, and you are still able to hear the birds.
Quote from tristancliffe :Solar is NOT a good idea.

yeah something thats worked brilliantly to power the world for give or take 4 billion years is a bad idea

Quote from tristancliffe :Hydrogen works at both the small and the large scale, so is likely to win the race at the moment in the very long term.

excuse me? you claim that batteries which have an efficiency somewhere in the 90s have a bad efficiency and then go around claiming that hydrogen the production of which has an efficiency at aroun 50 is the answer?
you do talk a lot of rubbish for someone with an engineering degree
Regarding hydrogen vs batteries, and, in general, all energy systems, simplicity is key. For each transformation, transmission, storage in the life cycle of an energy vector, you'll get thermodynamic losses. So, in that sense, it seems that hydrogen is not competitive enough with batteries. Let's see the steps from "well to wheel" for each vector:



As you can see, today, the life cycle efficiency of the batteries is better. You can read more about this graphic here.

If you ask me, I'd say that the key is not the technology (although we are close to peak oil and we must go past the internal combustion engine), but the use. The private vehicle must go, except for some uses (farmers, people in remote areas, some professionals), car sharing and good public transport is the answer. And for everything else, LFS!
Quote from Peaknik :The private vehicle must go

you were doing so well up until that point
Quote from Shotglass :you were doing so well up until that point

Kinda sucks, eh?

Thanks god we have LFS!
no thank god your strange fantasy will never become a reality
Quote from Vinnylegends :Chris, Youre and R3DMAN's reply's are just completely useless.
Since when do we say that Obama will become a good president but he cant because hes a Newb. Thats just weird guys. Having a good pair of brains and respecting the work of the devs and being happy enough with a Scirocco doesnt relate that i joined the community in Jule.
Really guys. Think before you speak.

There's your problem. If you were around for a little longer (about three years), you'd know that the difference between announcement and release is about two years.

You're new to this: you don't know everything here yet. Accept it, instead of throwing mud and making useless comparisons.

You said we should enjoy LFS for what we have now. The problem is that we have done so for quite a long time now; far longer than you've been around.
Quote from hagenisse :
The feeling when it accelerates can't be described. You get supercar-acceleration, and you are still able to hear the birds.

Have you driven it? afaik the only ones sold are in California. I'm taking one for a test drive in two weeks just to see how it goes. I may even be convinced its an ok car...maybe

Quote from Peaknik :The private vehicle must go, except for some uses (farmers, people in remote areas, some professionals), car sharing and good public transport is the answer. And for everything else, LFS!

omg commie pinko
jk
thats a terrible idea, last time I took a subway I was slapped by a drunk hobo because I dont like rap music. He licked his hand and slapped me with it. No one does that in my car. The great thing about private cars is that you can lock out the crazy and smelly people who take buses and trains.

Carpooling is ok, I carpool with my neighbor and she is sexy so its works well for me.
The concept of "transportation done using fossil based energy" is sooooooooooooooooooooooooo stupid which proves human being is not so clever as we were told. We should be clever and use free&clean energy like Geothermal, Wave&tide or sunlight. But offcourse it won't happen. Otherwise how the hell would great oil companies get greater and wealthier and provide us better and cleaner fuel to use in our cars.
The electric cars on the market today are really "a new hope" for a less-polluted earth. While it's only the beginning of their evolution, everyone should support at least the idea. More the people talk about electric cars, higher the pressure on companies about finding a way to produce cheap electric. So, i think we really should have an electric car in our simulator, just to spread the idea or to keep it fresh.
#43 - JJ72
Quote from ZORER :The concept of "transportation done using fossil based energy" is sooooooooooooooooooooooooo stupid which proves human being is not so clever as we were told. We should be clever and use free&clean energy like Geothermal, Wave&tide or sunlight. But offcourse it won't happen. Otherwise how the hell would great oil companies get greater and wealthier and provide us better and cleaner fuel to use in our cars.
The electric cars on the market today are really "a new hope" for a less-polluted earth. While it's only the beginning of their evolution, everyone should support at least the idea. More the people talk about electric cars, higher the pressure on companies about finding a way to produce cheap electric. So, i think we really should have an electric car in our simulator, just to spread the idea or to keep it fresh.

I object.

electric car for common boring daiily commune - great.

electric car for racing - no.

turning a racing simlulator into a promotional activity for a green movement - no.
Quote from oida_fux :the car that would boost LFS, and the automotive world, is the Tesla Roadster.

Because we will be able to save fuel and not to harm Blackwood's environment? The races would have to be 2 laps though...

(I'd rather live in a post nuclear wasteland, driving a proper car, rather than drive a G-wiz or a prius to preserve the earth...)
#45 - JJ72
Quote from squidhead :Because we will be able to save fuel and not to harm Blackwood's environment? The races would have to be 2 laps though...

well come to think of it, at least for the first time no one would complain about the sound.......
#46 - Gunn
Quote from JJ72 :well come to think of it, at least for the first time no one would complain about the sound.......

Heh, you're quite optimistic. Surely someone would still complain.
Quote from JJ72 :I object.

electric car for common boring daiily commune - great.

electric car for racing - no.

turning a racing simlulator into a promotional activity for a green movement - no.

We already have UF1 which is really slow. What's the problem having another slow car (electric car) which would make good sensation over the racing community?

Quote from squidhead :
(I'd rather live in a post nuclear wasteland, driving a proper car, rather than drive a G-wiz or a prius to preserve the earth...)

That's the problem.You won't be able to live in a post nuclear wasteland. No clean world, no healthy life. Take it serious.
Quote from pacesetter :180mph is a bit unnessescary dont you think?

No, it is necesssary for a lot of people, since cars aren't just a tool for satisfying your mobilty needs, but something else.

Haven't you seen all those car comercials? It is all about style, sensations, affirmation of your personality (coincidentally, all of this leads you to desire what they are pushing to you).

We need 180 mph cars to feel ourselves "complete", everything else be damned.
well some people actually enjoy driving, whether it be to and from work or on the track. They want a car that is quick, responsive, and when the time is right, fast as f***. When they are stuck in a car that is slow, soft, and boring then of course they are unsatisfied. Whether you need to go 180 mph or not, it is usually those cars that are the most satisfying to drive in regular circumstances.

I love driving my car and its a 2.5 ton 22 foot long station wagon. it may not be stylish or efficient, but i dont care. If it is to convey my sense of style, it doesn't do a very good job. wood paneling has been out of fashion for quite a while

Tesla Roadster
(67 posts, started )
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