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w126
S3 licensed
The forces in RAF are oriented alongside car body axes. However, most probably they are all not tyre forces, but the forces between the suspension and the wheels.
There is some discussion of RAF data in this thread http://www.lfsforum.net/showthread.php?t=4375 .
The order of wheel data is: FL, FR, RL, RR
w126
S3 licensed
It seems that iRacing may be perfect for all those people posting here that they would pay more for adding developers to LFS team, wanting real tracks and cars in LFS, saying how much they would pay for real tracks and cars, and which, being bored with LFS content because they've spent so much time with it, being unsatisfied with too slow development pace of LFS...

Mentioning console racing games and their marketing tricks in this context just doesn't make any sense. iRacing's product is based on the engine developed by Papyrus, still very good, even regarded as the best by many.

Their cars and tracks may not appeal to people living outside of north America, but this will probably change with time when they extend their content.

Will the price stop these people?
w126
S3 licensed
That's probably because fread() changes current position in the file and then you fseek() from that changed position, not from the beginning of a data block.
w126
S3 licensed
Quote from boosterfire :We all know that Eric lives in slow motion to the rest of us and should have finished doing dashboards by 2056.

I have just checked the GTR 2 credits. There are well over 20 people listed in it doing 3D modelling and texturing of cars and tracks, not including their bosses etc. They probably worked on that game for about a year and around 80 % of game content was reused from GTR (1) and GT Legends and only improved.
I think this shows that your statement is exaggerated.
w126
S3 licensed
Quote from Shotglass :they called their own mag arse for a reason
its only semi redeeming feature is that its free

But at least some of racesim developers/publishers appreciate their efforts and sometimes reveal new information through them. Some examples: iRacing info in the last issue, Blimey! Games and Virtual Grand Prix 3 in the previous one. This makes AutoSimSport an interesting resource.
You may not like the writing style of some of their authors (this is my feeling too), they may not be all devoted LFS fans, but why there is so much hostility against them here?
w126
S3 licensed
Quote from Gil07 :Now that you brought up ASS, anyone read the part about LFS (2008 expectations)? S3 in 2008, surely!

They also say the patch for nK PRO is is guaranteed.

Quote from Linsen :Did I get this right from the ass-interview? Two cars, one the Legend Car, the other the Solstice and a total of seven tracks?

And some of these tracks are going to be ovals.
w126
S3 licensed
I admit I haven't tried any RBR modding. It seems the engine simulation fell victim to their release deadline then. I guess the same happened to cockpits and non-Subaru engine sounds.
w126
S3 licensed
Quote from ajp71 :I don't think there's any sim that can really claim to have done anything other than a torque curve generated by a look up table or generic maths function though as you can get away with it pretty convincingly.

Richard Burns Rally is probably more advanced than that.
http://www.bhmotorsports.com/article/150/4
http://www.bhmotorsports.com/RBR/screenshot/5374
Last edited by w126, .
w126
S3 licensed
Maybe it's sound-related? Try switching the sound off (Shift-N) while testing.
w126
S3 licensed
Quote from JTbo :Random stages

I've been thinking about it for years. http://forum.racesimcentral.com/showthread.php?p=1147575
w126
S3 licensed
But you can still use rigid body equations of motion for wheels but treat them as something simpler for the purpose of collision detection. However, I agree it's possible that wheels are modelled as point masses (particles) with additional one-dimensional rotation.
w126
S3 licensed
Quote from AndroidXP :Well, who says the tyres are acting as such? It's very likely that just the car bodies are using those rigid body dynamics. Same goes for LFS by the way, I don't think it has gyro forces modelled either.

In LFS the value of wheel moment of intertia is available in CAR_info.bin files. Also the raw vertical load of the wheel (which is part of the force between the car body and the wheel) in RAF files can be negative when the wheel is in the air. Such things may suggest that the wheels are treated as regular rigid bodies in LFS.
w126
S3 licensed
Quote from Shotglass :id be surprised if netbike models gyro forces at all from what ive seen so far

There is something I don't understand here. What do you need to add to model gyro forces once you have rigid body dynamics (as described in some of these papers http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~baraff/sigcourse/index.html) implemented?
w126
S3 licensed
Quote from Kegetys :One solution would be to interpolate all the object positions based on exact frame rendering time between previous and current "physics" frame. That would also allow rendered framerates higher than the physics rate, though of course with interpolated "fake" data. It would require a small lag on the rendered frame though, but that would be just 1ms in LFS' case (100 Hz physics rate)

This post http://www.lfsforum.net/showthread.php?p=241752#post241752 suggests it will be done this way.
Another option would be to use extrapolation based on the last physics step positions and speeds. No lag in that case, it could cause worse problems though.
w126
S3 licensed
Quote from Shotglass :but didnt they also say somwhere that the ferrari game would be based entirely on isi and theyre working on their own physics engine for the game after that ?

I'm not sure, but it seems unlikely they would work with two different engines at the same time. There is interview with Ian Bell in the latest AutoSimSport. He said their Falcon project is separate from Ferrari Project (and arcade Kart Attack). There is no info on Falcon on their website yet, I guess that is because they keep information on game concept and content secret as it's supposed to be something very innovative. In the middle of 2006 they were planning that Falcon would take them 2 years, so it may actually be released before Ferrari Project. Falcon for sure is multi-platform project (PC and consoles) and it has multi-threaded engine, so even if it is heavily based on ISI physics engine they had to take a deeper look at ISI code while porting it to consoles and making sure it works in multi-threaded environment. In the process, they might have been tempted to improve the physics engine significantly.
w126
S3 licensed
OK OK
RK said Richard Burns Rally is one of his favourite games. He prefers rally simulator over racing simulators because he can race in real life all the time but cannot drive in real rallies. In his opinion RBR is the best rally simulator and one of the best motorsport simulators. RK is rally fan, he likes rallying, and RBR allows to some extent to see how it feels to drive a rally car. Rallying and racing are very different and RK grew up on racing tracks, so he continues racing. He drove in Barborka Rally (in Poland, including Karowa Street SS) three years ago, but now he is not allowed to do it again. He treats simulators as fun and relaxing way of spending time. Although the simulators are developing in a good direction, they will never be as good as driving in real life.
w126
S3 licensed
Quote from deggis :Kubica + RBR this for real and not some stupid rumours?

Here is RK interview text and video (in Polish). He speaks about RBR in it.
http://www.pcworld.pl/news/122239.html
w126
S3 licensed
I watched some short (7 laps) AI races in 3 slowest cars on all rallycross configurations, with X33 version. They all used default rallycross setups.

BL2:
- AI make violent turns at the entry to the pits (their path is just strange), as a result they almost lose control and crash sometimes.
- AI in XFG very easily damage their suspension on the jumps. They go into the pits to repair it even when it seems they could continue and finish the short race.

BL2R:
- Suspension damage in XFG, similar to BL2 situation.
- AI in XRG and XFG (less frequently) tend to hit the inside wall of T1.

FE5 and FE5R:
OK

FE6 and FE6R:
- Their behaviour after the race (I've seen it reported before) is probably due to lack of proper garages.

All configurations:
- They sometimes stop after the race but before reaching the pits. I'm not sure if it is caused by running out of fuel. If that's the case then maybe fuel calculations are too optimistic for gravel driving.
- AI are relatively not as quick as they are now on all-tarmac tracks. I guess it's not a bug though.
Last edited by w126, .
w126
S3 licensed
Quote from March Hare :There isn't any difference.

Well, one is an inertial reference frame, the other is not.
w126
S3 licensed
Quote from Bob Smith :By design, both your hands and feet are already busy*.

TrackIR to control body movement in-game is another option.
w126
S3 licensed
Wouldn't it be enough for reasonable bike steering to have just 2 additional axes used for body movement (left/right and front/back/sit up), all other controls left the same? The simplest hardware options could be just 4 buttons on the wheel (with settings similar to those used for keyboard car steering) or attaching an analog gamepad to the front of steering wheel. As you can see in the above video people are creative with their hardware usage. Even if far from perfect, if it worked just ok it would be rather rewarding to ride a bike like that.

Interesting problems arise in case of accidents when the driver loses contact with the motorcycle. Ragdoll physics could be used for driver sliding on the road or "controlled" ragdoll physics (with user steering ) when the driver isn't unconscious from the impact. Then after stopping normal motion-captured animations of running back to the motorcycle (user steering again) and rejoining the race if possible. OK, I got carried away, it would be lots of work and require introducing new techniques into the game.
w126
S3 licensed
Quote from hugoluis :The development team of Live for Speed could be hundreds of people!

Then three people less (LFS Devs) wouldn't make any difference. Why don't you just leave LFS alone, take the remaining hundreds of people and establish your own project? Oh, wait, there already is a racing simulation with hundreds of developers http://forum.racesimcentral.com/showthread.php?t=125970
w126
S3 licensed
Quote from CXC_Simulations :Looks can be very deceiving. Just because one is much bigger and moves to greater ranges does not necessarily mean it will feel more real to you in the cockpit. I realize finding 2 of these simulators near you is going to be difficult, but if you get the chance, let us know what you think.

Rather then looks, my opinion is more a result of reckoning that the seat does not usually move relative to wheel and pedal base in a real car when cornering, accelerating or braking. On the other hand, finding a car that actually does that (seat moves; not that its constructor wanted it) may be easier near me.

I am looking forward to trying any motion simulator, although getting access to only SimConMOTION seems most likely here. Not sure if it would be any indication of the level of experience provided by the more expensive systems.
w126
S3 licensed
Quote from CXC_Simulations :The FD 310 - Plain and simple, it is just another interpretation of a motion system. We're different. I've put many hours in an FD 301 and for me, this approach was better. But, that being said, other people may like their approach better. I think we do it better in a smaller cheaper package.

You must admit you are a little biased here. For me your product is really strange, an inferior solution (wheel and pedals not moving) still in the price range of FD 301, i.e. not affordable for a hobbyist. At the same time a device similar to yours can be built several times cheaper (SimConMOTION).
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