Quote from JohnUK89 :

I can name one: The United States of Afghanistan. Of course, it was caused by the US going in to start with...

it's one of those things that happened. what would be the outcome if Russia was still in Afganistan? Can't really predict...

Quote from DeadWolfBones :

edit: It's just another one of the GOP's talking points, where they take a small, reasonable statement and blow it up into an epic character flaw. Suddenly "will speak to enemy leaders" = "will dismantle the armed forces within 10 minutes of assuming office". Total bullshit.

Again, agreed. I'm not part of the GOP and think both sides blow things way out of proportion. Unfortunately, most of the GOP propaganda seemed more substantiated to me.

Quote from ATC Quicksilver :

it's their mess, they are the reason the taliban exists.

how so? they are extremist radicals that hate the western influences. they have bombed many countries, killing innocent people to prove their point. the world should be against the taliban, not just the US.

Quote from SamH :

.. and if a country IS communist, by the will of its people, then that's a damn fine thing.

can you give me some input on where it is the will of the people to live in a communist environment.


I can't really believe that people would like a communist government by free will.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/200 ... /us_russia_medvedev_putin

Quote :

MOSCOW (Reuters) – Russian President Dmitry Medvedev could resign from his post in 2009 to pave the way for Vladimir Putin to return to the Kremlin, Vedomosti newspaper reported on Thursday, citing an unidentified source close to the Kremlin.

Medvedev Wednesday proposed increasing the presidential term to six years from four years, a step the newspaper said was part of a plan drawn up by Vladislav Surkov, who serves as Medvedev's first deputy chief of staff.

Under the plan, Medvedev could implement changes to the constitution and unpopular social reforms "so that Putin could return to the Kremlin for a longer period," the newspaper said.

"Under this scenario Medvedev could resign early citing changes to the constitution and then presidential elections could take place in 2009," the newspaper said, citing the unidentified source close to the Kremlinl.

The paper said Putin, who is currently prime minister, could then rule for two six year terms, so from 2009 to 2021. The paper cited Putin's spokesman as saying he saw no reason for Putin to return to power in 2009.

Investors, already jittery over the impact of the financial crisis on Russia's economic boom, are trying to work out who is really in charge of Russia, the biggest question for those seeking to ascertain political risk.

They are seeking any details on how the current set up -- with Medvedev as president and Putin as prime minister -- could change. During Medvedev's speech Wednesday the Russian stock market erased most of the gains it made earlier in the day.

NATO concerns over Russia's missile plan

http://www.rte.ie/news/2008/1106/russia.html

Quote :

NATO has expressed serious concerns about the compatibility of Russian plans to deploy missiles in a western Russian enclave with arm control arrangements.

Russia's President Dmitry Medvedev announced yesterday the deployment of conventionally armed ballistic missiles in Kaliningrad, which borders Lithuania and Poland, in response to US missile defence plans.

NATO spokesman Robert Pszczel said the deployment, if confirmed, would raise serious worries concerning the conformity with existing arms control arrangements that are important for European security.

He said that the placing of these Iskander missiles in the Kaliningrad region would not help NATO and Russia to improve their relationship.

Mr Medvedev announced yesterday that the Iskander missiles were being deployed to neutralise the threat from planned US missile interceptors in Poland and radar facilities in the Czech Republic.

The US wants to deploy the shield in the central European nations by 2011-2013 to ward off potential attacks by so-called 'rogue' states.

Russia has denounced the plan as a threat to its own security.

It has in the past expressed its intention to withdraw from the Intermediate-Range Nuclear Forces treaty signed between Moscow and Washington in 1987, which bans missiles with ranges of 500-5,500km.

Current Iskanders, which carry conventional warheads and which NATO calls SS-26 Stones, are supposed to have a range of up to 280km, but an updated version Russia aims to deploy between 2009-2015 could reach close to 500km.

Russia and NATO have not held regular talks since the military alliance decided that their resumption was conditional on a 12 August ceasefire to the brief Russian-Georgian war being respected.

Meanwhile, there is speculation that President Medvedev could resign from his post in 2009 to pave the way for Vladimir Putin to return to the Kremlin.

Vedomosti newspaper reported the story today citing an unidentified source close to the Kremlin.

Mr Medvedev just yesterday proposed increasing the presidential term to six years from four years, a step the newspaper said was part of a plan drawn up by Vladislav Surkov, who serves as Mr Medvedev's first deputy chief of staff.

Under the plan, Mr Medvedev could implement changes to the constitution and unpopular social reforms 'so that Putin could return to the Kremlin for a longer period', the newspaper said.

Under this scenario President Medvedev could resign early citing changes to the constitution and then presidential elections could take place in 2009.

The paper said Mr Putin, who is currently prime minister, could then rule for two six-year terms, so from 2009 to 2021.

The paper cited Mr Putin's spokesman as saying he saw no reason for Mr Putin to return to power in 2009.

All I'm saying is that Obama has a shit storm brewing. I do not believe he is up to the challange as he believes that everything can be solved with diplomacy. I'd love for him to be right but it will go against everything that we have learned from history.

Quote from DeadWolfBones :

It's not as if the war didn't greatly benefit the US as well, what with lifting it out of the Great Depression to become an economic superpower for 50+ years.

I agree. No need to argue, we all have rights to our own beliefs and views of history.

Back on topic.

Quote from Jertje :

Can I just confirm that you believe Nazis invaded England, and had nukes?

No, that whole discussion snowballed way out of line, and people were misquoting. I was simply stating that the US is a peacekeeper.

Quote from ColeusRattus :

We just wanted to correct your overly US centric view of history. Of course the US played a huge part in the victory over Nazi Germany, but still, it's just a part of the common effort of all the allies, with the biggest part being done by the Russians.

Deal. Even though Russia only did it to benefit themselves and not the commonwealth of Europe in general.

Quote from DeadWolfBones :

I haven't vetted this, but pretty amusing:

where is New Mexico compared to Illinois on that list.

Quote from STROBE :

Wow. Just... wow.

Ever hear of the land lease act?

Quote :

Lend-Lease (Public Law 77-11)[1] was the name of the program under which the United States of America supplied the United Kingdom, the Soviet Union, China, France and other Allied nations with vast amounts of war materiel between 1941 and 1945 in return for, in the case of Britain, military bases in Newfoundland, Bermuda, and the British West Indies. It began in March 1941, over 18 months after the outbreak of the war in September 1939.
A total of $50.1 billion (equivalent to nearly $700 billion at 2007 prices) worth of supplies were shipped: $31.4 billion to Britain, $11.3 billion to the Soviet Union, $3.2 billion to France and $1.6 billion to China. Reverse Lend Lease comprised services (like rent on air bases) that went to the U.S. It totaled $7.8 billion, of which $6.8 billion came from the British and the Commonwealth.

Germany invaded Poland first; then Russia immediately responded from the east. Poland ended up getting slammed by both sides, but clearly Germany was the first to enter.


Really, russia is so innocent.

Last edited by major_syphillis, Thu 6 Nov 2008, 20:00.

Why do you guys think that the markets drop again with the news of Obama being elected?

Quote :

The FTSE 100 index of leading British shares was down 180.42 points, or 4.0 percent, at 4,350.31, while Germany's DAX was 214.99, or 4.2 percent, lower at 4,951.88. France's CAC-40 was down 145.06 points, or 4.0 percent, at 3,473.05.Europe's losses echoed those seen on Wall Street Wednesday and in Asia overnight. The Dow Jones industrial average fell 486.01, or 5.1 percent, to 9,139.27, while the Standard & Poor's 500 index shed more than 5 percent.
It's not expected to get much better later, with stock futures down. Dow futures were down 107 points, or 1.1 percent, at 9,070, while S&P futures were 12.9 points, or 1.4 percent, lower at 945.1.
The losses on Wall Street triggered a renewed bout of selling in Asia with Japan's Nikkei stock average down 6.5 percent at 8,899.14, and Hong Kong's Hang Seng Index 7.1 percent lower at 13,790.04.

...

Quote from Rdcranno :

Anti-US? Look, ive said before, I like America.

What i dont like is people like you getting facts wrong to suite their nationality. I cant weigh your county up, some of you are highley intelligent who have a open mind, then you get idiots like you who try to convince me that i owe you something. if you want to play like that then lets look back in history and you'll see that is us (europeans) that you owe, otherwise youd be still dancing around fire trading blood.

LOL - the funny thing is that I was born in europe and do have dual citizenship No one in america is american, except indians.

Again, by me trying to defend the US, you are saying that I am implying that you owe me something, which I am not nor have I said anything remotely like that.

Plus, I have not called anyone any names, but have been repeatedly called names by you guys.

Back to the original point.

Last edited by major_syphillis, Thu 6 Nov 2008, 11:19.

Quote from ColeusRattus :

Well, if you think it's "anti-americanism" to point out that it wasn't GI Joe that won WW2 singlehandedly, then yeah, I am anti-american too.

And if you don't like "communist" Obama, I doubt you'll be happy up north.

Never said that we singlehandedly saved the world, you guys take this way to serious. Originally, was saying that America is a peace keeping nation and pointed that we helped the allies in WWII.

Quote from Rdcranno :

Get off your fking high horse, Im not bashing the USA, America secured the victory. But don't think im going to lick your ass cause of it. Get your facts right and we can have a discussion.

lol im not asking anyone to lick my ass

I just love all this anti US thinking by everybody and their mothers.


Anyway, I'm moving to Canada next chance I get

Quote from tristancliffe :

This is priceless. I thought it was only people in Hollywood that thought America did much good in WWII. But no, here we have living proof that Americans are stupid!!!!! History is a word ne'er spoke in Americaland (and only partially because they don't have any).

If I had a missile I'd be pointing it at the US. I would certainly encourage anyone I knew to do the same.

I hope not all brits think alike. I'm not gonna argue with stupid.


You're right America did nothing in WWII.

Quote from Rdcranno :

Anyway lets stop this discussion now. and back to the all important president crap.
.

+1

I'm at work right now and this is a great time killer.

Don't consider any of this personal attacks. This is just a fun debate

Last edited by major_syphillis, Thu 6 Nov 2008, 10:55.

Quote from Rdcranno :

Going some where?

Russia's role was to defend her borders and not get involved in the war, that is the reason for the signing of the treaty with Germany. Although that didn't go to plan. Hitler back stabbed them and tried to invade.

Russia was overwhelmed at first but as soon as winter kicked in the German forces took a beating and eventually surrendered.

understand...

Quote :

But if not for the non-aggression pact with Hitler signed by Stalin in 1939, Germany would have been unable to so freely launch the attack on Poland that started World War II.

so russia helps start the war and then helps end it... sounds right lol

can't have both, russia is just a back stabbing bastard out for it's own good, cares about nobody else

Last edited by major_syphillis, Thu 6 Nov 2008, 10:44.

Quote from Rdcranno :

Oh please... Ignorant? Your the ignorant one, thinking you SAVED the world.



It was Russia's involvement that actual saved Europe, America joined the party at the end, and only really guaranteed the allies victory.

Ok this will be great to hear, how did Russia save Europe?


Just like they invaded and killed 1000s of innocent Poles. Their pact with Nazis that went sour and Stalin got bitter. Russia is just a back stabber.

Last edited by major_syphillis, Thu 6 Nov 2008, 17:40.

Quote from Crashgate3 :

Which country is it again that's the only one to ever use them in anger? Against tens of thousands of civilians I might add?

Nazis, when they invaded England? and who was there to bail you out. Funny how people forget.

Quote from Gunn :

How is it different from the US pointing missles at everyone else? If history is any judge, Cuba (and every other country in the world) would do well to have thousands of the things pointed at the US. We all deserve the right to defend ourselves against the evil force that threatens to destroy our way of life. We're happy how we are thanks.

It's called "freedom". Ever heard of it?

Who was there during WWI, WWII. I'm not sure, maybe I'm the only one that believes that the USA does good at keeping world peace. Not sure where you're from Gunn, but I can bet the USA saved your butt once or twice.

Some countries cannot be trusted with nukes or missles, like Russia, Korea, some of middle east, the list goes on and on.

How many countries do we send aid too, countless people count on us to provide aid.

Believe it or not, this world needs a super power, a peace keeper. aka USA

Last edited by major_syphillis, Thu 6 Nov 2008, 09:54.

Comfort. Sitting on that axle is terrible. Having a longer wheel base makes driving them a lot more comfortable.

Quote :

Saddam was hung because the Americans went in. They were hung by the Iraqi Government, which is being propped up by the Americans.

Saddam, along with his sick cousin Chemical Ali, poison gassed the Kurdish town of Halabja, killing about 5,000 people. An average of 70-125 civilian deaths a day during Saddam's 8,000 day rule.

Do you think it was justified? Or should we have left this to go on longer?

Quote :

Obama's beliefs are his own.

not for someone who is going to lead 300,000,000 people.

Quote :

Liberalism is a hell of a change from the Bush Doctrine.

it is the start of communism, fact. Make everyone equal. Capitalism dies. Take from the rich, give to the poor. Worked for Robin Hood but not in these times. Many small business owners will die out because of this, people that have put in sweat and blood to become successful. Not including all the dirty CEOs of major corporations, they need to be bled dry

Quote :

Have you actually seen any coverage from these countries or are you just making that up?

This is just known. Now with Bush out of office and a very liberal anti force president, no one has any fears. UK and almost every country faces terrorist actions. Whos gonna step up and fight terrorism now? Not Obama.

You think it's coincedence that this is happening the day after? http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,447204,00.html

Quote :

No, this is an international celebration.

For some, as others are making more pipe bombs and making plans to blow up innocent people.

Quote :

I'm not going to doubt that. However, I think that if McCain had have got in he'd have been likely to start a war that would annoy Russia even more. Bad news.

maybe your right. but atleast McCain would be ready for whats to come. Now Russia knows that Obama has got no knowledge whatsoever about "war."

Quote :

Again, I'm not going to argue with the fact that it won't be easy. It's not, but the chances that Obama can pull it off are greater than the chances that McCain could have.

Hope your right

Quote :

+1 on the hope. I hope he's up to it. Which he is, IMO.

not tryin to argue, these are valid points that are being misconstruded world wide. I'd love to live at peace but in this world it is impossible.

Last edited by major_syphillis, Thu 6 Nov 2008, 09:35.

First off, I'm not a republican, I'm a independant and base my vote to whom I see best fit for office. In this case it was McCain, even though both candidates weren't that great. I believe that most of the world sees Obama as the best fit president cause of his "change" campaign and because of all of the bad decisions Bush has made in the last 8 years. I think best fit president candidate was Mitt Romney, although he didn't make it that far.

Quote from DarkTimes :

Why do you think these countries hate the US so much in the first place?

These countries despise any form of free speech, free religion, homosexuality, and any kind of media. They are irrational and harbor many terrorists. Why do you think Saddam was hung and by whom?

Quote from thisnameistaken :

...

I agree with you. Very well put. He is an icon. But you don't know how he was raised and who his influences were. Do you know that he followed Rev. Wright for 20 years, attended weekly sermans and donated to his church. Watch this clip http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dqbA5c21zrQ Watch Obama trying to denounce Wright.

Ever hear of Karl Marx and Marxism? Obamas mentour? If you have patience this is a great video. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DNS_1ZoJWWg

Obama is far from being a centrist. He is the most liberal president elect. that we have ever seen. No way that he will ever change.

Quote from Lateralus :

More baseless fearmongering that just doesn't reflect reality. The Republican party tries to pull this shit every election - VOTE FOR US OR THE TURRISTS WILL GET YA! Have you bothered to read what world leaders have said about this election? The consensus has been that they see Obama as positive change and respect America more because of it, not less. More, not less. Foreign leaders weren't scared by Bush, they laughed at his stupidity and short-sightedness.

Many countries in the world like China, Russia, Saudi, Iran, Syria, NK, Somalia, Pakistan, Uganda, Cuba, Venezuela and more are rolling w laughter as the American public has been duped into voting for a weak inexperienced Communist President.

This is an international embarassment.


I didn't like McCain, I think he'll do more good as a senator than president. Palin was just a bad joke. But Obama is so far out there it's scary. Become educated about who is going to be your president instead of just watching tv and listening to his empty promises on how he will fix everything

Quote from Gunn :

They deserve to have missles as much as any other country, including the USA.

Yeah, cause missles pointed straight at America is a great thing. Pretty much clueless. Russia is led by an ex KGB sociopath and communist, Putin. Look at what they do to in Kosovo and how they interact with NATO. You do not know his next move, remember the cold war? And now we have to deal with Dmitry Medvedev, another commie. He is also trying to pass a 6 year term so he can be in power for 12 years instead of 8. Great news for the world

Obama has no clue on how to be a diplomat. I assume you know history. Has any president in the past been successful on solving problems with diplomacy, especially with someone like Putin. It ain't that easy, and Obama is going to get a reality check that you can't solve everything with diplomacy. Or the world would have been a peaceful place all along.

Quote from JJ72 :

guess you lot are more dellusional then your god.

Dude, you're from a communist state.





All in all, he is my next President and I hope that he can do what he promises. But his past is really shady and you cannot believe anything a politician says. The popular vote was almost 50/50. The next 4 years are gonna be tough for Obama. But I just hope he gets his head set on straight cause he has no clue what he is getting himself into. Most of the promises he made during his campaign will come up empty, just like with every other president in the past.

I was at the rally for Obama in Chicago last night. And his speech was very powerful, I just hope he lives up to what he promises.

I'm not a republican, I'm a independant and base my vote to whom I see best fit for office. In this case

Long live the US and may the world prosper. Love you all

Last edited by major_syphillis, Thu 6 Nov 2008, 08:57.

Quote from Lateralus :

That's true, but most of the policies which he plans to enact as President are better than Bush's.

Dimwit.

Ok, I'll play. Name some.


The reason why he won, is because everybody was sick of Bush. What people didn't seem to grasp that McCain wasn't Bush and opposed a lot of what Bush stood for. Most of the voters that voted for Obama are clueless, I suspect you just jumped on the "change" bandwagon yourself. Obama is a danger to America and people will see when these radical countries start acting up cause they aren't scared anymore and we don't have a defense system to handle anything like that anymore.

I can go on and on man. Did you bother to read what Pelosi said today?

Quote :

given the current state of the economy that the Dems have lost a lot of options to fulfill President elect Obama's promises.

guess what that means?

Last edited by major_syphillis, Thu 6 Nov 2008, 02:53.

Only 4 years of this clown and then we can get back to our regularly scheduled programing.


I love how the rest of the world supports Obama without knowing any of the facts. Just because he is running democrat doesn't make him any better than Bush.

Didn't like Bush but with Obama we are all doomed.

Watch and see.


Russia is already acting up. http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/200 ... _re_eu/eu_russia_medvedev

Quote :

MOSCOW - Russia will deploy short-range missiles near Poland to counter U.S. military plans in Eastern Europe

Next is missles back in Cuba


And watch out for Isreal, which of most wanted McCain to win

Quote :

Barack Obama has reached out to Illinois Rep. Rahm Emanuel, a prominent Jewish congressman, to be his chief of staff.

This is going to be another chit strom brewin up.



Facts people, read up before chanting Obama as a praise to the world LOL

Last edited by major_syphillis, Thu 6 Nov 2008, 02:38.

whats the server called?