Nice work Kid. Hope it didnt sound like I was doubting you, its just your 'unique' conversational style sometimes makes it hard to work out what you mean, so I was just curious.
Also, although the rears arent actually spinning, they will be operating at a much higher slip ratio than the fronts due to the acceleration, which also wears the dirt off.
Yeah, thats exactly what I was trying to say. Like I said, I was was talking about wheel torque, which is the car equivalent of thrust. How much of it you get at a given speed depends a lot on the engine power.
And I never said power to weight was irrelevant, it clearly isnt.
Interesting debate this though. Its certainly helped to clarify some of my slightly vaguer notions about torque/power.
Personally, I think much of the confusion is do with difficulties in explaining/understanding, rather than us actually having it wrong in our heads.
Anyway, I'll have a crack at your test, I havent looked at tristans answers yet, and engines arent exactly my strong point, as you've noted.
1) When is the best point to shift up?
c) when the next gear will deliver more torque to the wheels
2) To get maximum accelleration out of an engine you can use a continuously variable transmission (CVT) that can keep the engine at a constant rpm. Which rpm should this be?
b) max engine power rpm
I cant quite work out why in my head, but it stands to reason that if you are going to run an engine at only one speed, it should be the speed which derives the greatest power from the engine. It think its because running at max power rpm would effectively allow the CVT to be running in a lower gear, thus delivering greater actual wheel torque throughout the speed range.
3) You want to improve the accelleration of your car by getting a new engine. The dealer will only tell you either the max torque or max power. Which one will give you more useful information?
b) Honestly not sure. Max power and max torque are both of questionable use and dont tell the whole story, so I'd probably plump for max power.
4) You want to improve the accelleration of your car by getting a new engine. The dealer will only tell you either the torque curve or the power curve. Which one will give you more information?
c)both the same, one derives directly from the other.
5) With a given gear ratio you can go through the engine's rpm band by varying the speed of the car. At which rpm will you find the highest acceleration?
a) at max engine torque rpm (aerodynamic effects notwithstanding)
6) At a given vehicle speed you can go through the engine's rpm band by varying the gear ratio between engine and wheels. At which rpm will you find the highest acceleration?
b) at max engine power rpm, because it will yield the shorter gearing thus greater delivered torque to the wheels.
7) Which question, 5) or 6) is irrelevant when trying to determining the overall drag-strip performance of your car?
a) 5)
I'd just like to point out that I didnt make it very clear that I was referring to actual wheel torque in most of my previous points, which is a quite different thing to engine torque alone, as the engine power capabilities will determine what gearing is used to turn engine torque into wheel torque.
Anyway, I'll have a crack at your test, I havent looked at tristans answers yet, and engines arent exactly my strong point, as you've noted.
1) When is the best point to shift up?
c) when the next gear will deliver more torque to the wheels
2) To get maximum accelleration out of an engine you can use a continuously variable transmission (CVT) that can keep the engine at a constant rpm. Which rpm should this be?
b) max engine power rpm
I cant quite work out why in my head, but it stands to reason that if you are going to run an engine at only one speed, it should be the speed which derives the greatest power from the engine. It think its because running at max power rpm would effectively allow the CVT to be running in a lower gear, thus delivering greater actual wheel torque throughout the speed range.
3) You want to improve the accelleration of your car by getting a new engine. The dealer will only tell you either the max torque or max power. Which one will give you more useful information?
b) Honestly not sure. Max power and max torque are both of questionable use and dont tell the whole story, so I'd probably plump for max power.
4) You want to improve the accelleration of your car by getting a new engine. The dealer will only tell you either the torque curve or the power curve. Which one will give you more information?
c)both the same, one derives directly from the other.
5) With a given gear ratio you can go through the engine's rpm band by varying the speed of the car. At which rpm will you find the highest acceleration?
a) at max engine torque rpm (aerodynamic effects notwithstanding)
6) At a given vehicle speed you can go through the engine's rpm band by varying the gear ratio between engine and wheels. At which rpm will you find the highest acceleration?
b) at max engine power rpm, because it will yield the shorter gearing thus greater delivered torque to the wheels.
7) Which question, 5) or 6) is irrelevant when trying to determining the overall drag-strip performance of your car?
a) 5)
I'd just like to point out that I didnt make it very clear that I was referring to actual wheel torque in most of my previous points, which is a quite different thing to engine torque alone, as the engine power capabilities will determine what gearing is used to turn engine torque into wheel torque.
Yeah there is a lot on the list at the moment. But hey, japanese characters eh? thats something to look forward to. 
Yeah, basically as I understand it at the moment, the spr/mpr records all the control inputs to the physics engine, and the replay just re-simulates the entire race based on the recorded control inputs. So the only 'saved state' is the start, which means the only way to go backwards is to re-simulate the whole thing from the beginning again.
This is obviously an enormously space efficient way of saving replays, as you only have to record a few values for each car.
I guess a solution would be to start saving the total race state every lap, or every sector say, so that you can immediately skip forwards or back to any of these 'saved' points. It would increase the file size to some extent, but presumably not too drastically depending on how often you saved the state.
This is obviously an enormously space efficient way of saving replays, as you only have to record a few values for each car.
I guess a solution would be to start saving the total race state every lap, or every sector say, so that you can immediately skip forwards or back to any of these 'saved' points. It would increase the file size to some extent, but presumably not too drastically depending on how often you saved the state.
I think we're just misunderstanding eachother Skiingman. I'm talking about the actual torque delivered at the wheel (ie. post gearing) for a given moment. You seem to think I'm talking about the quoted torque peak figure, regardless of rpm.
Of course, higher power output effectively means being able to carry on producing high torque at higher revs, which means staying in a lower gear for longer, producing higher wheel torque for longer, hence acheving better acceleration.
Basically what I am saying is that the torque/power curve is all you need. Its the main defining characteristic of an engine.
Of course, higher power output effectively means being able to carry on producing high torque at higher revs, which means staying in a lower gear for longer, producing higher wheel torque for longer, hence acheving better acceleration.
Basically what I am saying is that the torque/power curve is all you need. Its the main defining characteristic of an engine.
My god I know that. We were talking about acceleration just then.
I always thought the person who designed the logo was the winner of a competition called Nicholas Grignon.
Sorry but I think you're wrong. Currently delivered torque absolutely dictates your acceleration.
Torque/effective wheel radius = delivered linear Force at contact patch.
Acceleration = Force/Mass
Therefore as weight = mass*g
torque/weight is directly analogous to force/mass which equals acceleration.
Therefore torque to weight is the most accurate way of defining a cars acceleration potential. The reason its never quoted is perhaps because people dont understand it.
Torque/effective wheel radius = delivered linear Force at contact patch.
Acceleration = Force/Mass
Therefore as weight = mass*g
torque/weight is directly analogous to force/mass which equals acceleration.
Therefore torque to weight is the most accurate way of defining a cars acceleration potential. The reason its never quoted is perhaps because people dont understand it.
Well the main point is that you need the setup values to do the setup analysis. There is no point storing .set files on the server and then constantly reading/writing them as people change their setups online. Also it enables you to do statistical analysis of the way people setup their cars etc.
But yeah, the other advantage is that if the setup format changes, I can just change the WriteSetup function to generate a setup which conforms to the new standard. Doesnt necessarily mean it would work exactly the same if there have been physics changes, but it would at least give people a starting point.
Anyway, sorry I didnt mean to hijack James' thread. Mine isnt going to be a downloadable script for teams anyway, so I'm looking forward to James releasing his.
But yeah, the other advantage is that if the setup format changes, I can just change the WriteSetup function to generate a setup which conforms to the new standard. Doesnt necessarily mean it would work exactly the same if there have been physics changes, but it would at least give people a starting point.
Anyway, sorry I didnt mean to hijack James' thread. Mine isnt going to be a downloadable script for teams anyway, so I'm looking forward to James releasing his.
I've been working on something similar, so I'd like to request that you dont add any more features
Actually. mine is something a bit different. Its designed as the groundwork for the next gen setup analyser and actually reads the set files, stores the setup values themselves in the DB, then re-creates a valid binary .set file from the database values when you download a set.
Actually. mine is something a bit different. Its designed as the groundwork for the next gen setup analyser and actually reads the set files, stores the setup values themselves in the DB, then re-creates a valid binary .set file from the database values when you download a set.
Even with zero wing angle, the GTR's are still generating significantly more drag than the FZ50 with no wings at all.
If you look at the aero section, set both wings to zero, you can see that the undertray and both wings are still generating a fair bit of drag over and above the body drag.
Also, the power to top speed relationship is exponential, so to acheive 25kph higher top speed once you are already up at 250kph requires a lot more extra power than increasing the top speed from 150-175kph for example.
If you look at the aero section, set both wings to zero, you can see that the undertray and both wings are still generating a fair bit of drag over and above the body drag.
Also, the power to top speed relationship is exponential, so to acheive 25kph higher top speed once you are already up at 250kph requires a lot more extra power than increasing the top speed from 150-175kph for example.
Last edited by colcob, .
You have to make fairly wholesale changes to the balance to get a locked diff to work, but it does work.
I'm driving in the ESL UK championship, which is UFR only, and pretty much all the top runners are using locked diff. You just need to dial in more basic oversteer and adjust your turn-in driving style slightly.
I'm driving in the ESL UK championship, which is UFR only, and pretty much all the top runners are using locked diff. You just need to dial in more basic oversteer and adjust your turn-in driving style slightly.
Stay friends with that plasterer, you'll need him. My first house, every single room needed some re-plastering after the wallpaper came off.
Yeah, we kind of got together and made a start, but I got hellish busy with real life, and also doing some actual league racing for once, and it hasnt really gone anywhere for a while.
When I've finished a little job I'm doing for TSR, I'll get back on to it.
When I've finished a little job I'm doing for TSR, I'll get back on to it.
God, I hope that the NTL Telewest merger doesnt mean NTL service standards being adopted accross the Telewest regions.
NTL are the most incompetent, indifferent, lazy, worthless excuse for a service company that I ever had the misfortune to pay a monthly fee to. Telewest, so far at least, has been excellent.
NTL are the most incompetent, indifferent, lazy, worthless excuse for a service company that I ever had the misfortune to pay a monthly fee to. Telewest, so far at least, has been excellent.
I'm an Architect. I work in sunny Bath, England and am currently running a £5M concert hall project for a private school with far, far too much money. How the other half live eh?
In my spare time, I have been known to tinker with vehicle physics spreadsheets, although these days I spend most of my free time either playing with my two young kids, or doing SERIOUS diy (building an extension by myself).
In my spare time, I have been known to tinker with vehicle physics spreadsheets, although these days I spend most of my free time either playing with my two young kids, or doing SERIOUS diy (building an extension by myself).
I guess from your handle that you've got a vested interest, but provided you know what you are doing and work carefully and systematically, DIY electrics are perfectly safe. Course you have to do your homework, and only ever do something if you are 100% sure you are doing it right, but its not exactly rocket science.
And now you have get it certified under part P anyway.
Well you are bound to get force because the centre of the contact patch and the intersection of the steering axis and ground are nowhere near eachother. The wheels actually roll forwards and backwards when you steer while stationary, so obviously of you apply brake you generate a force resisting this roll.
Has anybody noticed that since S2 came out, LFSWorld has been logging 'Fuel Burnt' for everybody?
So LFSWorld knows exactly hoh much fuel we all burn on average, and will probably be able to tell us sometime soon.
So LFSWorld knows exactly hoh much fuel we all burn on average, and will probably be able to tell us sometime soon.
Ah come on Fordie, Westhill is an ace track for the UFR
I'll buy a pint for everyone who can take T1 without lifting off.
I'll buy a pint for everyone who can take T1 without lifting off.
Ace stuff. Congrats to all three but particularly our teammate Rumiko for second place.
Hmm, I guess in theory you could make a program that was the analogue equivalent of a button macro, whereby you preset the clutch/throttle inputs to run on the press of a button. But it wouldnt be very flexible and if you did loose traction you'd be screwed until the macro finished.
AFAIK the outsim output doesnt include anything about individual wheelspeeds or rpm, so you couldnt use that to actually detect wheelspin.
AFAIK the outsim output doesnt include anything about individual wheelspeeds or rpm, so you couldnt use that to actually detect wheelspin.
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