My question is in the topic. Did anyone ever asked him if he could sell the ownership of sourcecode and what would be the price? We (the community, for example Airio server owners) could put up the $$/££ toghether and continue the development? Im sorry for taking up this topic But I feel current situation is just a pity. It doesn't cost anything to ask him the price of source code. Sure somebody here knows him personally?

Yes. And he is not interested.

I am not familiar with Airio, but does it have anything that a program like Lapper doesn't have?
As far as I know, only Lapper is still actively developed, so if possible, it would be best to start there and rebuild the options Airio has, within the Lapper environment and in case a function that Airio has, isn't in Lapper yet, it might be included by the Lapper developer.

Quote from Yisc[NL] :

I am not familiar with Airio, but does it have anything that a program like Lapper doesn't have?

I think the main reason people still use Airio is it's huge online database being filled up for ages and people simply don't want to start again. But that's just how I see it, not necessarily true. AFAIK the only other thing that Airio has and Lapper doesn't is lag checker, but that shouldn't be that hard to add it to Lapper I believe.

Quote from cargame.nl :

Yes. And he is not interested.

So he's basically holding the code for himself? That sucks :/. Then again, it's his code so it's his decision.

How old is that info? Maybe after all this time he'd be more willing to let someone update it?

Give the guy a break.

Yes it's a pitty that airio don't get updated anymore and some things don't work properly. But I feel airio is still most complete lapper and we are able to ad new cars and tracks. But then I tried lapper somewhere 2011 / 2012 maybe it's more complete now

Quote from Sobis :

How old is that info? Maybe after all this time he'd be more willing to let someone update it?

True also this, however after all this time is even more possible that he has deleted all his stuff. If I would think that as mine, I would happy to leave the stuff for those who could enjoy it for long. And I am not expecting this to happen as a donation. I am interested of the amount of money required for this to happen.

Why don't we ask him again? "We"...I mean somebody who knows him.

@RC-Maus
Complete? I think you are missing the main difference between those two. Airio is install, read manual and play. With Lapper you have to create your own stuff (now thinking about it, this might be another reason why people still use Airio) so it's as "complete" as you make it.

Quote from LakynVonLegendaus :

Complete? I think you are missing the main difference between those two. Airio is install, rean manual and play. With Lapper you have to create your own stuff (now thinking about it, it might be another reason why people still use Airio) so it's as "complete" as you make it.

Creating a script has to be done once and then anyone can use it (if the script is shared on the forum of course).
I might be wrong, but I don't think that it isn't possible to re-create all that Airio has, in the Lapper environment.
Then it could even be offered as a whole package, like download, extract, set a few options like admin-password, portnumber etc, and then start Lapper and have the same as Airio.
Besides that, with Lapper scripts everyone can adjust things to their likings, as long as they get used to the way scripts needs to be written.
I don't know how much Airio can be customised.

Quote from Yisc[NL] :

Creating a script has to be done once and then anyone can use it (if the script is shared on the forum of course).

If you (or anyone) recreate whole Airio in Lapper and make the script available for public I would call you My Lord for the rest of my life.

Quote :

I don't know how much Airio can be customised.

I think the fact that people are asking for source code tells how much customizable it is Not much.

I think an updated tracker system would help out all round in my opion more people would drive Rockingham if all the stats were linked back to Airio/lapper or lfsworld and displayed like current airio stats. http://stats.airio.eu/EXP.aspx

Hate to admit it but I love stats on !ex always trying for the next level if Rockingham !pbs got you exp points my lap count on that track would be much more.

Quote from Sobis :

So he's basically holding the code for himself? That sucks :/.

No that is what you make of it, he simply doesn't want to have anything to do with this community anymore. Not today, not tomorrow and also not next month or next year. Selling or giving anything has as consequence he gets sucked into this sick environment again and this is not desired. He has a fine job and private life, doesn't need this dark whining kid environment anymore.

So either LFS Lapper or even better (because it is open source) KingTracker I see as good alternatives. You can do everything you want concerning race tracking and managing with those tools.

The lag detection of Airio is not good by the way. It is using the LFS InSim information (CCI_LAG), which is too slow and/or too unreliable to be of any use.

Just for the record, what does Airio has that should/could be recreated in, Lapper for example?
I might be up for the job, if I would know what I have to take on.

Quote from Yisc[NL] :

Just for the record, what does Airio has that should/could be recreated in, Lapper for example?
I might be up for the job, if I would know what I have to take on.

I would say check the manuals it's all in there.

demand != manual

Quote from cargame.nl :

Selling or giving anything has as consequence he gets sucked into this

yea in a way I understand this. The next step after selling the source code would be, that future developers would call him for asking thousand support-questions "what means this and what means that and wich version blaa blaa blaa"

edit...maybe he has uploaded the source code in an unknown place in internet and will tell us the location after 20 years

Quote from lucaf :

yea in a way I understand this. The next step after selling the source code would be, that future developers would call him for asking thousand support-questions "what means this and what means that and wich version blaa blaa blaa"

edit...maybe he has uploaded the source code in an unknown place in internet and will tell us the location after 20 years

In 20 years, there is probably no more Airio used anymore, at least no recent version.

EDIT: Yes, I know, serious joke... heh

But in other hand, what as before Airio and after Airio, I think we are in after Airio time now. it's historical and outdated and should go for classic old-school rather than using outdated insim.

Quote from Yisc[NL] :

Just for the record, what does Airio has that should/could be recreated in, Lapper for example?
I might be up for the job, if I would know what I have to take on.

The thing that puts me off racing a server without some insim or other is not having a toplist of lap times, everything else I can live without.

Quote from Racon :

The thing that puts me off racing a server without some insim or other is not having a toplist of lap times, everything else I can live without.

Lapper has a toplist as one of the default features.
But I also created a script to show a toptable per car.

Quote from UnknownMaster21 :

I think we are in after Airio time now. it's historical and outdated and should go for classic old-school rather than using outdated insim.

The reason for my question was, because big amount of servers are running it, historical or not. Changing lapper software from one to another, is not just a matter of losing all statistics. It is also a matter of reconfiguring everything "as it was" using different commands and functions, wich would mean, everything cannot be configured identically, and you should create compromises and re-think implementations.

I mean its not just swapping software, requires also design efforts. That's why I would love the idea of having 2nd life of Airio, for example as open source.. but okay, I understood that it will not happen.

Looking at the manual, Airio stores all it's data into TXT files.
The latest version of Lapper has functions to read those files, which would mean that historical data could be imported into Lapper and then be stored in the database.
Don't get me wrong, it would be a monumental task to write the functions Airio has within the Lapper environment and then converting all the historical data as well, but with some skilled Lapper coders, it can be done (I feel).
Anyway, enough with my Lapper advertisement, as the question of the OP wasn't about Lapper to start with.

It's better then textfiles (the manual doesnt correspond in any way to the last versions of Airio, he had no time to write/update an extended manual). It's SQlite. Well.. It can be SQlite, lets say it like that. The person who runs the InSim can specify to use textbased or SQlite. I needed this at a later stage because the collected data on the CG servers became so huge that even a heavy processor / memory sorting couldnt handle it anymore.

Quote from lucaf :

The next step

Exactly.. Glad you understand this! Not only that but you/he is forced to start tracking again what is going on with 'his child'. It's not good, this community has given him so much negativity that it started to affect his private life. Maybe similar to what happened with CTRA and what Eric is experiencing. You need to be some sort of assh. and/or ignorant to other people to be able to function here

Quote from cargame.nl :

this community has given him so much negativity...

What is it about this community that makes it so toxic? Things weren't always sunny and bright, but looking back over the last 8-9 years, its been a pretty huge downfall...

Quote from Silverracer :

What is it about this community that makes it so toxic?

another thread for this