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all-around neutral steer FZR
1
(39 posts, started )
all-around neutral steer FZR
trying to go faster and sick of the understeer.

it feels too soft but i'm too soft to do the math. very fun but start with 100% fuel and try to make the tires last for max effect.

before i released my last all-around set i did 9 lap races of the entire lfs content (including rally) against a full grid of everything from gtr to gti, starting from the back. if i lost one race, i had to start over from blackwood. compulsive or just plain fun? well some people play bingo.

i didn't do as much testing with this one. any help is appreciated Smile

note it needs high force feedback setting
Attached files
FZR_neutral_soft.set - 132 B - 471 views
version e
using these settings
wheel lock 639
force feedback max
Attached files
FZR_neut_e.set - 132 B - 374 views
Quote from CarlLefrancois :using these settings
wheel lock 639
force feedback max

Its just not compatible with faster tracks. On slower ones its kind of ok. Tyres overheats easily.
iteration f
i had a go with R3s last night. it was a bit hard to get heat into them. i think R2 will be the final choice but there is a balance issue making the rears overheat.

at westhill i was able to do a lot of laps as long as i didn't push to max with a lot of gas. (rear left tire failed on inside on 39th lap (of 39 lol))

about ff i was totally off. i had been using 100% for a long time but recently put back some caster so i was at 35% and trying 40% now. oops.

this latest aims to improve mid-corner turn-in and possibly have the tires last longer by having less wear on inside.

i think it needs a bit more steering ratio. it's getting close to guidable in the middle of a skid with hot tires. it's never felt so much like a real car.

i'm so glad i got a comment Smile i wonder if for faster tracks it's just straight wing that is the problem or if there is too much toe-in and softness in the tires? with this last set i'm finally sure the same times as my first all-around set can be reached Smile
Attached files
FZR_neut_f.set - 132 B - 334 views
progress
not there yet, but since i may not have the chance for a while, here are the latest iterations of what i hope will some day be an all-around set.

since i can't drive, this may be useful for others like me to have fun. there is a bit too much wing but the car stays very driveable and seeks to turn in while staying (sort of) stable through the mid corner and exit.

there are three sets, one from earlier today that stood out, another that i think might be the best of the three, and the last one i was working on tonight so maybe not as polished but quite interesting.

note 606 degrees with g27 in global profiler. it may need to be a bit lower still... not quite sure how to do steering geometry Big grin
Attached files
FZR_neut_g1.set - 132 B - 341 views
FZR_neut_g2.set - 132 B - 324 views
FZR_neut_g3.set - 132 B - 323 views
version h
almost direct turn-in with a smoother transition to corner exit.

not endurance quality but very nimble and stable.
Attached files
FZR_neut_h.set - 132 B - 366 views
For my personal preference it does not feel very nimble. Yes, it might be stable and good for newcomers, but with those downforces and ARBs, it felt like you simply do not allow the car to be at its full potential.
I compared your set to some WR sets and it clearly was not something I would use for racing.

Might be good for newbies because it handles easy and allows you to drive the thing.
^personal preference, obviously.
You're totally right about the ARBs. Most of the time I change things in the garage and go by feel to make iterations. When I loaded this last one up in VHPA I saw the roll stiffness was way too high (and the bump damp is over critical).

I think the reason is that overly lowering the car creates a longer roll moment arm and my idea was to keep the rears as flat as possible to help grip on the inside wheel. This was leading to more and more roll bar and some googling helped me start raising the car again and finding a more natural feel.

I ran across the interesting quote from Colin Chapman:
Any suspension, no matter how poorly designed, can be made to work reasonably well if you just stop it from moving.

Big grin of course the goal is to some day reach performance closer to that of WR setups, which is kinda far right now. It's a bit different though trying to make an all-around set. Things can feel great on one track and be horrible for a given corner of another track. It's a good challenge to compromise for south city chicane and aston gp.

I'm happy to get this criticism. i'm no engineer but i'm having fun and any feedback helps a lot. the latest version already has less stiffness and would be released but i'm trying for a minimum of quality assurance to prevent people from losing interest.

Hopefully i can post within a few hours since i have a break today Smile
well, out of time before being satisfied with anything. however, just for interest here are two of about 30 iterations i worked on. posting since it may be a while until next time i get a chance to continue.
Attached files
FZR_hill_360 ^a.set - 132 B - 329 views
FZR_hill_367d.set - 132 B - 335 views
um. needs fixing. the understeer is not from the springs i think but toe. just go slow and you will go fast Smile (useful to hug apex even when entering the corner too narrow)

host settings:
g25 at 634
Attached files
FZR_HILL_395^a.set - 132 B - 322 views
a bit closer
some fine tuning. not quite right yet but the most fun to drive of the bunch so far.

these last two are heavily influenced from a good xrt set (zeus bl1r) but some more work was added to get to this point so it's not like a total ripoff Smile
Attached files
FZR_hill_398i.set - 132 B - 331 views
at last. not quite tuned in the damping, but really controllable with throttle so steering wheel can compensate. stable enough mid-corner to allow to commit.

extended setup information in readme.txt to replicate exact feeling as much as possible (with G25/27). and a little demo where i fail badly but have fun Big grin

the zip is all the iterations i tried tonight on top of the 400 one that was the result of last session.
Attached files
carl_FE3R_FZR_allround.spr - 4.7 MB - 274 views
FZR_hill_510.set - 132 B - 306 views
readme.txt - 109 B - 147 views
session.zip - 2.8 KB - 155 views
after some 3h mini race
still not fast
-
(CarlLefrancois) DELETED by CarlLefrancois : actually sucks on some tracks
update
will try to tweak but shouldn't suck like last iteration did sometimes
Attached files
FZR_neut_k.set - 132 B - 328 views
neut_k.spr - 147.2 KB - 203 views
update
in-progress snapshot. cooked the rears but so much fun to drive, i don't know if they can last with better driving.
Attached files
FZR_neut_l.set - 132 B - 299 views
NEUT_L.spr - 7.1 MB - 222 views
neut_m
-
More Neutral Set (ShannonN) DELETED by ShannonN : wrong info
A more neutral setup
Quote from CarlLefrancois :feels like it could go faster

Try this one, in VHPA it is slightly more understeer inclined in springs sector while greatly reduced understeer in damping sector, I have redone gearing to suit myself, have fun.
After more testing here's v2.
Attached files
FZR_Neutral.set - 132 B - 330 views
neut_n
Quote from ShannonN :Try this one... (and v2)

nice Smile these set lets you turn in at the limit and get the power down reliably.

i kept going for a new version of mine looking for more speed now. i think it's quite controllable considering the stability
Attached files
FZR_neut_n.set - 132 B - 309 views
neut_n.spr - 8.7 MB - 230 views
finer tuning
i think this one maximises the tires more. it chirps sometimes but still needs work of course. a little bit of understeer to dial out still but gets to the apex pretty well

using G27 with 773 degrees of rotation
725 in-game degrees
compensation 0
force strength 12

i can upload the replay later. internet sux right now
Attached files
FZR_neut_o.set - 132 B - 306 views
low wing
has good enough feel to enjoy Live for Speed's tracks Smile
the wing is too low to get the lowest times. i think it can get good tire wear with better driving.
still has a bit of push but this is maybe the first set in this thread that really goes to the hard apex and doesn't wobble out.

extra settings:
LFS controls settings
wheel lock 801
steering compensation 0
force strength 26
sensitivity 4.43

device settings
effects strength 105%
spring 0%
damper 0%
centering spring 0%
degrees of rotation 774°

for the curious:
exact toe F -0.00173 R 0.009509
Attached files
bl1 L012.spr - 7.1 MB - 165 views
FZR_neut_p.set - 132 B - 265 views
small update
a test at aston historic gave bad wear on the fronts for the last version so here is an improvement. more wing and some pretty precise feel.

edit: 0.00968 / -0.0017312
Attached files
FZR_neut_q.set - 132 B - 251 views
in-game force 12

feels locked in but nearly uncontrollable. the rear is always about to let go and it won't turn, but i'm on different lines than usual and it seems tighter.

the rears wouldn't last, even on south city but that might have been just my bad driving. i think the crowning at the rear should be the next thing addressed
Attached files
FZR_neut_r.set - 132 B - 267 views
neut_r.spr - 8.3 MB - 161 views
1

all-around neutral steer FZR
(39 posts, started )
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