The online racing simulator
I never said anything about the racer, I can't judge that aspect, but what I hear from most people around me is that they have clean and good races on iRacing.

However I have to agree that there's a certain hype around iRacing which may attract some less competent drivers.
Quote from Bose321 : is that they have clean and good races on iRacing.


Even for the die hard iRacing guys, this is not something I've EVER heard tbh.
In the oval street stock division I was actually able to have quite a few clean races once I got into the top tier of that 'Rookie' Series. (6 month free trial) $0.00 invested in it

In general though, 90% of the drivers were trouble on road and oval races.

I think that many of the people here who organize events would rather keep to themselves. This is the only way they can be certain that the events will go the way that they feel they should. . This is the main reason that centralization fails on here.

The freedom that iRacing lacks is GREAT here on LFS, but we could use a little help that was lost with the SPDO Database . I would like to see us here at LFS have something like this website ( http://racing-reference.info/ ) for our events, but that would be asking a LOT.

Tell me a website like that for LFS wouldn't make you want to be a part of every league race possible.
Quote from Bose321 :I think the whole game isn't really designed for this. The game and all events are simply too unattached.

All it really needs is a clickable link in the main or multiplayer menu of LFS.
Like described in https://www.lfsforum.net/showthread.php?t=82912


Quote from Bose321 :I never really joined any events in LFS, but I think it's too much of a hassle to participate.

It actually is not much hassle. Usually just a few postings on a forum or even just reading an announcement and being on the server at the time.
But I see why people might think this way.

I think the trick to more league participation is to reach out to all the "casual players" who have not heard of it or hesitate for various reasons.
The playerbase is probally 90% "casual players" and 10% "pro racers" so it is more effective to target the larger part.

Since those players do not come to the forum on their own and event integration into LFS is probally far away, leagues must come to them:

-Busy servers like cargame.nl could have event calender in welcome screen.
-Have calender on www.setupgrid.net and setupfield.teaminferno.hu

---
Btw why must thread titles always be phrased so negative?
signed up for a league.

~20 into first race, disco disco disco so no more reconnect. practices were ok

second race i never tried reconnection.

hibernating until internet is fixed
I'll give the thread another read-through tommorow after work to find any more talking points, but a few things I'll point out now.

A reminder, this thread is intended to be about what we, the LFS community, can do in lieu of fresh content / features - what we can do with what we have, and not what we might have in the future.

Promotion of the leagues is definitely a key item, but that takes time and when the league administration staff is short, it means two or three people doing the work that would best be done by 4 or 5 people. Doing the streams, articles, et al became much more difficult when drivers started practicing in private servers, away from the view of competitors. It was always beneficial to me, not just as an administrator of the league, but also for the events I commentated to be able to be in the league's server with many of the teams from the competitive to the backmarker rungs, with everyone discussing at least generics. The point is that something happened a few years ago to the "openness" of practice that was so beneficial to everyone.

There is a problem indeed in the realm of the past regular participants have gotten older, more responsible, more real-life oriented instead of sim-racing oriented. Somehow, there was a disconnect between this most recent generation and the new generation. I'm thinking that the lack of public practice was what broke the chain. Public practice would populate a server, and someone looking for some server with people in would join, and while not often, but enough they'd start talking with those in server, and find out about league racing that way.

They don't have that anymore. That bit of between event interaction, and word-of-mouth promotion, is what helped make things so big. The people that couldn't race for whatever reason, would at least check out a stream if any to see how the races went. They learned while being in the server, they had fun, they made friends. The interaction gave LIFE to the game, it helped infuse the racing spirit into a new generation.


I'm not feeling entirely misguided in my rant about league attendance as it was stated in the OP, but I'm also now of the notion that the spirit of days gone by is the real culprit. Nothing to do with slow development, nothing to do with complainers on a forum, nothing to do with anything other than people. The nature of people, their thoughts and doings.

I'm 98% sure if we get that spirit back, that camaraderie, that involvement, that friendliness back, it will, in time, improve the community's spirit. It will take the mind off of the slow progression of development, it will give cause to support this work that has served all of us for so long with so much, for such a little price.


Call me unrealistic, call me idiotic in this theory, call me an idealist if you want. But if you do, ask yourself this one question:

What, other than money or because you enjoy it, is a big driving factor in participation in anything group-based?

Camraderie
Quote from BlueFlame :Maybe organizers should just work together instead of having multiple series with no attendance of streamers/commentators/stewards.


How about that?


We already know what's popular. : GTR so how about just stick with that until numbers pick up again.



A stream is crucial for attendance figures. We're all vain, we all like to see ourselves on 'tv' screwing up, or being awesome. So if you can't forfil that, and a few admin cars then you mayaswell forget it.

You wanna feel like the series is valued, when it has only a few guys racing, you lose interest quickly which is a downward spiral.

Sorry but GT3 really never had a stream (or tracker for some rounds) and had good grid sizes.
Quote from dekojester :

Call me unrealistic, call me idiotic in this theory, call me an idealist if you want. But if you do, ask yourself this one question:

What, other than money or because you enjoy it, is a big driving factor in participation in anything group-based?

Camraderie

I completely agree with you, but there is one major problem to this, the MPR extractor. How do you want to get everyone training together when top teams openly use it, I'm not going to name anyone, but not long ago some teams decided to have an agreement not to use it and it is the same teams who come on the servers accusing others to use their sets and so on (don't ask me how they know that ). In single driver events they don't seems to care too much, but it will be a problem when the endurance season is going to start. The mentalities of many drivers was already an obstacle to camaraderie and the MPR extractor is going to do even more damage! (more than I wanted to admit)

I've never complained about the lake of content or development and I'll never do, but things like the MPR extractor is a real problems for league racing and patching it could help us greatly!
Quote from Framaris :I completely agree with you, but there is one major problem to this, the MPR extractor. How do you want to get everyone training together when top teams openly use it, I'm not going to name anyone, but not long ago some teams decided to have an agreement not to use it and it is the same teams who come on the servers accusing others to use their sets and so on (don't ask me how they know that ). In single driver events they don't seems to care too much, but it will be a problem when the endurance season is going to start. The mentalities of many drivers was already an obstacle to camaraderie and the MPR extractor is going to do even more damage! (more than I wanted to admit)

I've never complained about the lake of content or development and I'll never do, but things like the MPR extractor is a real problems for league racing and patching it could help us greatly!

you just need to ignore it, if they do steal your sets you just need to beat them and show them how to drive it
Quote from Franky.S :you just need to ignore it, if they do steal your sets you just need to beat them and show them how to drive it

Not really what I meant, personally I do not care about it and my team feels the same way. But it opens the way for many arguments and I do not see how this could improve camaraderie between competitors!
#111 - CSF
If you want to improve camaraderie, you should share sets and try to improve the less experienced/skilled folk we see on track these days.
those setup stealers were 1st april jokes

However what sadly is very real is the hack where you can change the minimap of other players so they try to follow wrong track.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SrkIZkWtkiA
Quote from Gutholz :those setup stealers were 1st april jokes

However what sadly is very real is the hack where you can change the minimap of other players so they try to follow wrong track.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SrkIZkWtkiA

This is not a hack, this is an open config track. When you use open configs the mini map "opens up".
Quote from Gutholz :those setup stealers were 1st april jokes :shrug

Unfortunately they actually aren't. As much as we'd like them to be, they are in fact out there, and do exist. As for their success, I can't speak for that.

Quote from Sobis :This is not a hack, this is an open config track. When you use open configs the mini map "opens up".

I wish cargame actually never used open configs because it takes until basically the rotation to figure out even what is going on. Plus scenes of mayhem like that.
Quote from Sobis :This is not a hack, this is an open config track. When you use open configs the mini map "opens up".

He's joking...
And I'm not.
Quote from dawesdust_12 :

I wish cargame actually never used open configs because it takes until basically the rotation to figure out even what is going on. Plus scenes of mayhem like that.

Right, lets do a BL1 or AS3 forever. Thats really moving things forward.

I don't understand the correlation with league racing anyway in this aspect.
Quote from Framaris :I completely agree with you, but there is one major problem to this, the MPR extractor. How do you want to get everyone training together when top teams openly use it, I'm not going to name anyone, but not long ago some teams decided to have an agreement not to use it and it is the same teams who come on the servers accusing others to use their sets and so on (don't ask me how they know that ). In single driver events they don't seems to care too much, but it will be a problem when the endurance season is going to start. The mentalities of many drivers was already an obstacle to camaraderie and the MPR extractor is going to do even more damage! (more than I wanted to admit)

I've never complained about the lake of content or development and I'll never do, but things like the MPR extractor is a real problems for league racing and patching it could help us greatly!

In general, the idea of a pact cant work because its natural to have your doubts if someone copies an idea from your set like gears, which you can tell by watching them...did they do it themselves, or rip them from your set? It is natural to put doubts there. If you disagree with that, then maybe you should look at your own team, because I've been accused of that too. But I don't really mind, the problem is that it's physically possible to take someones setup. Sadly I can't see that changing.

After being around for a while actively since the MPR ripping has come, I can't personally tell the difference in the community. In my opinion you either think you have something to hide, or you don't. If you think you do, then you don't test infront of other people and it doesn't matter if you have a MPR setup extractor or not, you can tell a lot about the setup from the way tyres heat and top speed, atleast the 2 most important things.

As for Camraderie? Well, this is competition. What sort of Camraderie do you expect? IMO if people ask for help, and are showing lots of motivation to improve, then I'm happy to go out of my way to help them. I mean, why do you think I started driving for dynX, but then I get accused of trying to hurt GenR ... Only thing there really is to improve on how it is right now is to have some sort of base set for the cars available posted in the race discussion threads to help people out. But in general there isn't anything big to improve on in that regard imo, the community is already pretty good and the amount of childish insults has reduced a lot from the past
Quote from dawesdust_12 : Plus scenes of mayhem like that.

Those scenes of mayhem can be easily solved with a proper designed layout with enough objects used to warn drivers of upcoming turns and such. HOWEVER, that still won't fix drivers who fail to pay attention to said objects and signs.
The MPR setup extractor is real, I have procured a copy to validate the claims. It could be a valuable tool to race administration in fixed-setup leagues yes, but it's not worth having it available at-large.

To mend the issue that allows the extraction would require a massive rewrite of essentially the entire game. It can get the setup values simply by reading the physics values used in memory to create what you see. Sure, that information can be encrypted, but the cost to process that probably isn't worth it.

A Gentleman's Agreement assumes that all who are involved are Gentlemen by deed. It's not really possible to enforce via regulatory means. Sure, a team can claim that another team is using a part or their entire setup, but the correct administrative response would be "Proof please?". Regulations being enforced on basis of assumption over proof beyond a reasonable doubt are destined to fail and cause problems. One who uses the MPR extractor to their benefit is obviously going to come out and say "Yeah, I stole your set" when asked if they did.


The camaraderie I refer to is the friendly spirit in the competition. The competition indeed must and shall be fierce, everyone wants to win. That's part of the camaraderie I speak of. The rest is that interaction you have "in the Paddock" before and after the races, and during your public pick-up racing you may do.


On the whole, there are leagues built. We're wanting for more drivers to come!
Quote from dekojester :Sure, that information can be encrypted, but the cost to process that probably isn't worth it.

Why not.. We are six years ahead in time. Any CPU nowadays has hardware encryption encoding supported, and well.. *cough* multiple cores to just mention something new *double cough*... But yeah, if there is a dev team which basically doesn't seem to be motivated to do anýthing how can you expect the people who play the game, develop insims, create renders, make videos, run servers, do/organize leagues to be motivated...

FGED GREDG RDFGDR GSFDG