The online racing simulator
[Merged] Discussion regarding LFS development
(1577 posts, started )
Quote from theirishnoob :ok ! *bans all turkish demo players* <--- not a stereotype, of the last 15-20 cheaters ive met, 15-18 where turkish...



You do know that even I can put Turkish flag next to my name, don't you?
Quote from Mysho :You do know that even I can put Turkish flag next to my name, don't you?

We do, but they all speak Turkish.
Quote from theirishnoob :ok ! *bans all turkish demo players* <--- not a stereotype, of the last 15-20 cheaters ive met, 15-18 where turkish...



Not only Turkey, but also in Russia they began to be fruitful.
For example on this server (TEAMCCCP.RU), they are sometimes.
Always good to hear from our devs.

One thing that I'd like to point out is LFS is NOT any kind of collective/open-source work. It's made by 3 people and released to its consumers as a black box. You get it as is without much info about the inside. That's how it works.

The product is not meant to be built for geeks. Yes, some of the guys here may know the computing/physics staff very well, and they would be, in no doubt, interested in the background staff. But that's the minority, which is not important from a purely commercial perspective.

Quote from Victor :No. The development is really not that interesting for most people. It's just maths, maths and more maths. Very dry. It's not like there are fancy graphics used or so. ...

As Victor said above, for the most of this this community, there is basically nothing going on for the front end. Update reports for the math ? OK in the first 3 weeks. After that you'll see tons of "WHEN CAN YOU FINISH THIS S**T AND RELEASE THE REAL THING ?!!".

But I do think it's not a bad idea to release the track first, especially after such a long time. After all, it's just a colored LIDAR mesh with some surface type data. (Over simplification, but you get the idea.) It's always their choose though.

Quote :... And a video would just show scawen banging his head into the desk trying to figure things out. (ok that might be fun to watch)






I'm guessing for the most part, visually showing of the new tyre physics to the community would just be a bunch of equations and algorithms very few of us would understand. And most of these equations and algorithms will probably be intellectual property of the developers, therefor not made publicly available to anyone.

Tyre meshes, screenshots, etc. would in this respect just be cosmetics.
Quote from Mysho :You do know that even I can put Turkish flag next to my name, don't you?

you do know that their all not nly speaking turkish but well... acting turkish ( driving like my old turk/kurd neighbours )

If we could use road tires on the GTR cars then I think that would make a lot more fun. Hybrid tires on the FXR? Pretty much a rally car
Just imagine if there was an option to take the downforce under-trays off the cars. The FBM with no under-tray and LX6 tyres would be a fun car to drive. And it shouldn't require a huge programming effort to do.
Thx Victor nice to read something about the never ending "Progress".

I play Rfaktor2 & Project Cars last weeks, but the 0.6 Lfs feels better until today , you have years of lead, use it intelligent.
Well this is good thread.

What I think pisses most of the people off is that LFS used to be frequently updated game and then it just stopped.. At least the updates stopped... SILENCE..

As if Scawen is a hard working dad sitting behind his desk and the community is his child asking dad what are you doing, tell me about you work/progress and the answer is: "Im just working on this project, go and play your games...this will be done soon" -this is exaggerated

And Victor's posts show something that is not so good marketing vise, the idea that it takes Scawen/other devs too much to release small updates just to keep us posted.

-Is the tire physics only thing that will be done?
-Any other updates can't be released without the new physics/S3?

The community needs some real updates or at least some dates/deadlines /announcements like:
Next time You will hear from us May 2012 or this takes so much time/is so complex that you shouldn't wait for updates for at least next 6 months.

I think that now it's very confusing for the majority of the community what's really going on: Why? Because they are interested in the game that used to be updated very frequently and the community flourished. And now it really seems abandoned, dead even.

I also think that everyone remembers "the good ol' times" when we received a new update now and then and thing really moved forward.

Well now we come to the delicate matter: If the devs can't keep the community happy by releasing new updates because it takes so much and slows the development then why not give the community a chance to create their own content?
- like new tracks, not just layouts
- new cars

Also it's funny how some people react to these threads: "The game is perfect as it is, if you don't like it go and play some other games" -Now how immature is that?
It's like being saddam hussein saying: how you dare to criticize our government, it's perfect as it is and if you're not happy, please let us behead you.

I read this forum time to time and the snowball of concern has been growing....
Californian i bet You have played rFactor and You know it was really hard to find game that You could join. Letting peope make thieir own tracks and cars will just bring mess, hundreds of Spa/Monza and the diffrence between them will be just one cone. The only solution would be to make contest every month and one track and one car that win would be implemented to the game. Otherwise i voting no for "creation kit" for everyone.
Quote from lol_men :Californian i bet You have played rFactor and You know it was really hard to find game that You could join. Letting peope make thieir own tracks and cars will just bring mess, hundreds of Spa/Monza and the diffrence between them will be just one cone. The only solution would be to make contest every month and one track and one car that win would be implemented to the game. Otherwise i voting no for "creation kit" for everyone.

Good point, that is good option.
But the point is: if you can't make content/don't have time for small releases, maybe you could allow the community to implement their own content, the monthly track contest would be a nice and fresh thing. That would relive some frustration that is growing among the community.

Still the lack of content thing is only one of the matters arising....then there's the whole "abandoned" feeling, even though we know that Scawen is alive and working on tyre physics, we haven't had much...Information, facts, dates to wait for and have been left just handing on..
Quote from Californian :
Also it's funny how some people react to these threads: "The game is perfect as it is, if you don't like it go and play some other games" -Now how immature is that?

Sounds immature but its a truth, isnt?
LFS isnt a country, its a product. Well, maybe a cheap one.
Sure, i understand those that boring all these years with same content (maybe i will too, next year) and i dont post to tell you "hey, LFS is superb as it is, you are wrong", but after all is a situation "take it or leave it".

Anyway, all the developers wants to please their customers. Scawier too but they do it at their own way and maybe that makes the LFS special and the man who wants, more than anybody else, the new tyres physics released is Scawen.
Quote from Victor :This is not really possible. It's not like Scawen makes some changes and then goes for a drive to try and feel the changes and then goes back to programming again for some more changes, etc. It isn't so that there are versions from the beginning of the update until now that can be compared on how they drive.
The work is much more theoretical and exists mostly on paper and as data resulting from the high detail tyre rig simulation (see previous news items on lfs.net for pics). I can't go into this more than that though. Physics is not my department and I am pretty bad at it as well, so there's a good chance that I say wrong things if i elaborate more.

Besides that, I did actually do a comparison video once (using an updated LFS which we first thought was good, but found out it wasn't), but physics changes are not so radical that you can actually see the difference. It'll be the feeling of driving the cars in the end that will make the updates apparent.

So when scawen finishes the new tyre physics and they don't work, then he just restarts? I'm sure scawen saves things as he goes along..
this game is slowly dying.... the devs are even slower to make it more entertaining......


Wtf happen to the racing online, its just a bunch of kids drifting!

disrepectful to people who pay a premium to race on a sim that is 5+ years old with minor texture updates, i dont recommend this sim to many, it was fun but it has lost that originality.

s3 is not on my list of future sim purcahes due to the track record of the devs. nothing will change with s3, if it ever comes out.
Quote from Californian (Fin?) :Well this is good thread.

Not really, but that is just another opinion.

Quote from Californian :As if Scawen is a hard working dad sitting behind his desk and the community is his child asking dad what are you doing, tell me about you work/progress and the answer is: "Im just working on this project, go and play your games...this will be done soon" -this is exaggerated

In what way? How could Scawen exaggerate the fact that he's working on his game?

Quote from Californian :And Victor's posts show something that is not so good marketing vise, the idea that it takes Scawen/other devs too much to release small updates just to keep us posted.

It seems you have never been very much involved in a project that takes up all your time, being dedicated enough to sacrifice communications with everyone you usually keep updated. It can be tough on everyone, but also shows the level of commitment some individuals (read Scavier) are prepared to engage for the benefit of us, the users/clients.

Quote from Californian :The community needs some real updates or at least some dates/deadlines /announcements like:
Next time You will hear from us May 2012 or this takes so much time/is so complex that you shouldn't wait for updates for at least next 6 months.

He/they already stated that in essence. Research and implementation is clearly too complex to work out within a fixed time frame. Hence, it is ready when results show it can be implemented with satisfying results. Not very hard to understand or accept, is it?

Quote from Californian :I think that now it's very confusing for the majority of the community what's really going on: Why? Because they are interested in the game that used to be updated very frequently and the community flourished.

True.

Quote from Californian :And now it really seems abandoned, dead even.

Not at all where/how I play, in my opinion. Link shows the online history for the past 600 days:

Quote from Californian :I also think that everyone remembers "the good ol' times" when we received a new update now and then and thing really moved forward.

When was the good ol' times? 2007-2008? Or was it 2003-2005?
Perhaps things are moving more forward today than "back then" considering Scawen is improving on the tyre physics parameterization? Comparing with the good ol' times that just have to be a movement forward, right?

Quote from Californian :Well now we come to the delicate matter: If the devs can't keep the community happy by releasing new updates because it takes so much and slows the development then why not give the community a chance to create their own content?

Please feel free and do so. I'll buy your product if you are able to make me more happy than what LFS already is doing.

Quote from Californian :Also it's funny how some people react to these threads: "The game is perfect as it is, if you don't like it go and play some other games" -Now how immature is that?

Eh?
It might not be perfect, that's why Scawen is still working on it, isn't it?

Quote from Californian :It's like being saddam hussein saying: how you dare to criticize our government, it's perfect as it is and if you're not happy, please let us behead you.

To follow this I must take in some CnH2n+1OH.

Quote from Californian :I read this forum time to time and the snowball of concern has been growing....

I think I know what you mean, but I think the snowball "effect" is in your imagination. Several have left awaiting updates, yes, but there is no significant drop in online users is there?

To me it sounds that you like LFS so much that the way you express it comes around a bit skewed?
Hopefully we'll all be happy one day, but until then we should really consider our complaints and perhaps turn them into inspiring suggestions and cheers for Scavier to carry on the extraordinary hard task that lay before them.
Quote from Californian :Good point, that is good option.
But the point is: if you can't make content/don't have time for small releases, maybe you could allow the community to implement their own content, the monthly track contest would be a nice and fresh thing. That would relive some frustration that is growing among the community.

Still the lack of content thing is only one of the matters arising....then there's the whole "abandoned" feeling, even though we know that Scawen is alive and working on tyre physics, we haven't had much...Information, facts, dates to wait for and have been left just handing on..

spot on. Rfactor has a superior online experiance, it only takes a few minutes of google searching and downloading to be compatible for a certain server/gametype. Alot shorter then waiting for something new from Scawen, tweaking is the only thing that has made lfs interesting for me lately thankfully. Imagine how popular lfs would be if had a modding community that was supported by devs.... but no were suck wondering what if.... lfs was still interesting...
Quote from Ingolf :

Not at all where/how I play, in my opinion. Link shows the online history for the past 600 days:

lolz, 40% of the populated servers are cruise servers, 40% drift servers, 10% some random crap and the last 10% are racing servers,
which have stupid class thing and you end up racing with xfg/xrg yourself while others go past you with gtr cars.
You go on about lfs not being dead, fanboi...

2007 we had racing servers full of people. CTRA, redline racing, cone dodgers... can't even remember all of them.
And most of the people back then could respect other people and actually was social and could race well.
WoOT??? LFS is dead??? Don't say that, you might wake alot of people up from the dream, and they will realize that LFS has been dead for a while now
Quote from Waste Me :I'll not return, i'm off to C.A.R.S. devs love the feed back, better graphics, better tracks, and better physics.
You can only kling on to a hope for so long.
Its a shame but thats life.

Better feedback? Yes sir... Better graphics? Yes sir... Better tracks? Yes sir... Better physics?
I'm not so sure about the ffb either.
Quote from Matrixi :I'm not so sure about the ffb either.

Oh yeah forgot about the ff... thx for the help Matrixi
About C.A.R.S. :

Better graphics ? Of course !

Better tracks ? I think so.

Better FFB ? Not sure.

Better physics ? Well, at least in theory, the C.A.R.S. game, which is based on GMotor 2, can be as good as some of the top rFactor mods out there. In that case, it's hard to say which is better. Both LFS and those rF sims have their pros and cons. But given where the project is actually doing I'd say "NO".
Quote from Keling :About C.A.R.S. :

Better graphics ? Of course !

Better tracks ? I think so.

Better FFB ? Not sure.

Better physics ? Well, at least in theory, the C.A.R.S. game, which is based on GMotor 2, can be as good as some of the top rFactor mods out there. In that case, it's hard to say which is better. Both LFS and those rF sims have their pros and cons. But given where the project is actually doing I'd say "NO".

tbh every sim is tackling the same problems in their own ways and manners, its only disapointing when a game with a much larger budget fails to perform.

[Merged] Discussion regarding LFS development
(1577 posts, started )
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