Does the engine rev too high in the BMW-Sauber? An F1PerfView graph of RPM over time for a lap around AS Grand Touring shows that I'm frequently hitting peak revs of about 21,600 RPM. This seems to me to be about 1000-2000 RPM too high given that current F1 V8s struggle to run at 20,000 RPM even in test conditions.

probably because its not gonna cost you your job if you blow it

Hopefully this video should answer your question nicely

2006 Cosworth V8

The fact that there are two fewer pistons helps matters, but the main reason for the increase over last year is just natural development. There's also been more of a push to get the max power out of the V8s this year because of the huge drop off of performance.

The torque is also terribly low now (hence all teams now run 7sp 'boxes instead of a few still running 6 ratios last year). The quoted torque of 209lb/ft on LFS will be pretty accurate. Just to put that in perspective, our Saab 9-3 produces 205lb/ft of torque! It's all about top end power with an F1 engine.

Incidently, came accross this cool video in my search Renault V10. I was lucky enough to see Mercedes run one of their V10s on a dyno in 2001, and it was pretty magical

That Google clip is very impressive. What a great dyno that can simulate a full race.

THANKS

Yeah it's fun watching it when it's attatched to a gearbox. The one at Mercedes had Hakinnens lap programmed in to it. You could hear all this throttle feathering and everything. They have one in Germany that can shake the thing around too!

actually, the cosworth is the only engine hitting the 20k rpm.

All the others (BMW included) only hit about 19k... some just 18,xxx rpm

so yes, from what i see on F1 races through Tv, the BF1 is reving way to much in LFS

You're assuming that the TV graphics are 100% reliable though. They're not...they're calculated values done through estimation. It's possible to calculate the revs through analysis of the sounds, so I don't know whether it's done 'on the fly' by the TV system, or whether they just match it to approximated frequencies. You can tell it isn't a real feed as it goes a bit hay-wire sometimes.

None of the F1 teams want to give away the exact rpm figure because of their competitors. I'd say that the LFS revs are relatively accurate.

Quote from ArosaMike :

You're assuming that the TV graphics are 100% reliable though. They're not...they're calculated values done through estimation. It's possible to calculate the revs through analysis of the sounds, so I don't know whether it's done 'on the fly' by the TV system, or whether they just match it to approximated frequencies. You can tell it isn't a real feed as it goes a bit hay-wire sometimes.

None of the F1 teams want to give away the exact rpm figure because of their competitors. I'd say that the LFS revs are relatively accurate.

Ah, but F1 teams sign a contract obligating them to send a telemetry feed to the FIA for broadcasting purposes. The feed you see on TV is actually a low quality telemetry read out from the actual engine status. It goes haywire sometimes because the quality is so low that like in LFS sometimes lag occurs and the feed kinda 'warps' all over the track.

Quote from TagForce :

Ah, but F1 teams sign a contract obligating them to send a telemetry feed to the FIA for broadcasting purposes. The feed you see on TV is actually a low quality telemetry read out from the actual engine status. It goes haywire sometimes because the quality is so low that like in LFS sometimes lag occurs and the feed kinda 'warps' all over the track.

are you sure? i was convinced the rpm was derived from accoustic analysis..

It's probably right rpm's. The have probably got some facts from BMW

hint:cosworth 2004 it's 2006

Any low quality RPM feed is likely to contain a large amount of bullshit by teams disguising what they're really doing. They also won't post on their websites what they're really getting in testing.

WE only know what the cars rev to, not what the redline is, so perhaps the 'redline' of the BMW V8 P86 is 22,000rpm, but there is perhaps no benefit to revving to that - i.e. more wheel torque in the next gear at circa 19,000rpm.

Who knows? Not us!

Also anyone proved there's 6 hours engine life revving to 22000 rpm?

I tried to brake the engine hiting high RPM. I couldnt. While on 7th gear and over 300 km/h I downshifted to 1st gear. The engine after that was still running. Maybe a bug?

Quote from spyshagg :

actually, the cosworth is the only engine hitting the 20k rpm.

All the others (BMW included) only hit about 19k... some just 18,xxx rpm

so yes, from what i see on F1 races through Tv, the BF1 is reving way to much in LFS

Räikkönen revved 21k in today's quali.

Quote from nexis :

I tried to brake the engine hiting high RPM. I couldnt. While on 7th gear and over 300 km/h I downshifted to 1st gear. The engine after that was still running. Maybe a bug?

Engine damage doesn't really exist in LFS yet, you can damage the engine but you have to be really trying (ie. 15000 rpm in the XF GTI).

I think the important thing to remember about F1 engines is that the rev limits we hear about arent actually the ideal shift points, F1 teams always want to set the limit higher if they could without the engine blowing up.
So the engine will probably physically run to 22,000, and the team probably would run it to that if they could, but it wouldnt last more than a lap.

i think the devs would have made it pretty accurate, atleast they had some info about it, ive only read speculation here.

Quote from Barroso :

i think the devs would have made it pretty accurate, atleast they had some info about it, ive only read speculation here.

No they wouldn't of, BMW will have given them a rough torque curve and told them that they rev in to 2X000 rpm

yep, because how much the real motor revs is a big secret. lol

There is a thread discussing F1 on the forums at Digital Spy in which quite a few of the people behind the scenes take part - i.e. people who do work or have worked in the past for FOM. From reading that thread, it is clear that the RPM display is provided by analysis of the sound produced by the engine. At the start of the season they were discussing how the switch to V8 engines might require some updating to the equations that provide the display.

naive question from a complete dummy concerning these matters:

If the bf1's peak hp is at 19076 rpm and it's peak torque is at 16315 rpm, shouldn't I be shifting at 19076 rpm at the latest? I mean, I know the redlamp comes on much later, but that doesn't seem logical to me

Quote from Linsen :

naive question from a complete dummy concerning these matters:

If the bf1's peak hp is at 19076 rpm and it's peak torque is at 16315 rpm, shouldn't I be shifting at 19076 rpm at the latest? I mean, I know the redlamp comes on much later, but that doesn't seem logical to me

Short answer: not necessarily.

See the "about GTRs" thread in the improvements section for lengthy "discussion" involving this matter.

Linsen: Its complicated, but suffice to say that extract maximum acceleration from an engine, you nearly always need to shift after peak power.

Imagine the peak of a mountain you are passing over, if you start half way up and climb to the top, your average height is 3/4 of the way up. If you start 3/4 up and climb over the top and a 1/4 down the other side, your average height is 7/8 of the way up, which is higher.

Simple as that