The online racing simulator
The Stretching of Skins
(60 posts, started )
Quote from 5tag :View the file in CMX Viewer and note both "Djarum Black" logos at the end of the car. They appear not to be distorted on the surface.

You will however note that I had to actually distort them on the skin file to achieve this.

5tag, isn't that what Gunn says? (Thx for the feedback BTW, Gunn)

There are alot of spaces like the FZ Door-window-part on the 'top layer' wich gets pretty wierdly stretched... Or the rear-part on the 'side layer' where you actually have to make a logo a bit of a rhomboid to appear like a sticker on the actual car. Basically everywhere, where the carshapes are curved it needs special attention.
I've split the sidebox of the F08 in my templates, for example, in two parts, because of its shape. (hope you get what i mean, im always bad at explaining things)

PS: somewhere a line needs to be draw. I could imagine that with all the differences on different parts, sometime someone says F. it... its too much of a hassle.

PPS: made a note in 1st post.

PPPS: 5tag, now im thinking a bit clearer then the other day... how would you measure the stretchin in you wireframe method. PM me.
#27 - 5tag
Quote from JazzOn :5tag, isn't that what Gunn says? (Thx for the feedback BTW, Gunn)

There are alot of spaces like the FZ Door-window-part on the 'top layer' wich gets pretty wierdly stretched... Or the rear-part on the 'side layer' where you actually have to make a logo a bit of a rhomboid to appear like a sticker on the actual car. Basically everywhere, where the carshapes are curved it needs special attention.
I've split the sidebox of the F08 in my templates, for example, in two parts, because of its shape. (hope you get what i mean, im always bad at explaining things)

PS: somewhere a line needs to be draw. I could imagine that with all the differences on different parts, sometime someone says F. it... its too much of a hassle.

PPS: made a note in 1st post.

About Gunns post: God! I have to go to bed earlier!^^
yea, well.. not everybody is a fan of rubber

Anyway, I got around to recheck them all using screenshots with "direct view" and the following had to be updated :
BF1_65-60, 62-60, 62-58
FZ_65-60, 85-90, 75-73 (5tag, the difference between top and side got even bigger o.o)
LX_ 70-62, 85-82
RB_ 80-85, 00-90, 70-64
XR_70-67, 00-90, 85-87
FX_70-65
XF_80-83

If i not totally mixed anything up, it should be pretty accurate now.

I also added the lost RAC and the VWS
Quote from MAGGOT :Very useful tool for new and veteran skinners alike. Nice work

I'll double that. Thank you very much.
JazzOn, you're the one! Thanks for working out and supplying these! I often thought of doing the same but never did it becuase of that amount of work.
Great job and very, very helpful for every skinner
Niiiice! These are really useful. Thank you
ahh well... Thanks a lot for the nice comments, guys

I appreciate it.

Jaz
Very useful, thanks for the effort
A little quick-trick i use for the FXO and other sedans:

starting with a 2048 sized skin, use guidelines to divide the image up into it's binary sections (halve's quarters, eighths - you'll find that each of these coords is given by adding common binary numbers e.g. 128, 256, 512, 768, 1024, 1536 (1024 + 512).. zoom up on the image to drop the guideline exactly), you'll begin to see the components of the car falling within defined boxes*.

But concentrate on the guideline at 1536, and place one at 0 too. next, make your canvas 512 pixels wider. Lock the image over to the right so that the newly added area is on the left. make sure you have lock to guidelines switched on, and box-select the sides and roof/bonnet section as defined by the 2 vertical guidelines. Then, use edit/transform/scale to pull the left of your selection to the left of the image area. this effevtively makes the roof/hood/side sections a 2048 square image itself.

At this point, you should do your paint thing, apply logos, etc.

Now, you may want to set up a macro or action to save your work as a jpeg, then you need to open that jpg - the guidelines should still be there, use them to select just the stretched-out section, and edit/transform/scale it back to it's original size. finally, crop the image back to 2048 wide. resave. you need to do this repeatedly if you're aligning stripes and logos across different panels, and updating the skin in the LFSviewer regularly.

it's not a 100% system for all of the sedans, at least i assume so - i haven't tested it, but it's an only slightly bigger step to taking each of the pieces defined *at this point, and stretching each component over screen-captures of the orthagonal views from the LFSviewer (top, side, front, back), then, once finished, cutting and pasting it back into it's original space in the grid, using the guidelines to stretch it back to it's exact original aspect ratio. I've used this technique to make an FZR template that works perfectly - but! - only when viewed in an orthagonal view. here's why:

Whenever a panel slopes away from the purely vertical/horizontal it distorts. the more it is sloping away the more it disorts. look at the insides of the front vents to see this happening. this is because of the planar coordinates used to apply the skin to the car model. the use of the word 'skin' is deceiving as it implies a wrapping procedure, but it's actually more like the grain throughout a piece of wood or the lettering inside a stick of Blackpool rock-candy, it's being projected through the mesh.

but yeah, the binary thing is fascinating don't you think? it's a technique used by texture mappers in almost all games, as its easier to programme using set sectors defined by halves, quarters, eighths, and so on, and the tiling positions are all defined by 0.5, 0.25, 0.125 increments. i'm sure it all gets a lot more complex, but that was a eureka moment for me

when i started out as a computer animator we had a seperate texture map for every part of a model, but you couldn't do that for a game - it would get very large, very quickly, and it would be a nightmare trying to find all of the required components for alteration. actually, it was. i'm not an animator any more, btw.
lol, come again?

nice technical tut there, of which i barely understood a thing. I made these 'guide templates' to make skinning easier not more complicated

Edit: hehe, thx 5tag
#36 - 5tag
Quote from JazzOn :lol, come again?

nice technical tut there, of which i barely understood a thing. I made these 'guide templates' to make skinning easier not more complicated

I have to second that.^^

The good thing is, that JazzOn did spend a huge amount of time once (well, twice ), saving the general skinner a lot of time as often as he does a skin now (if he wants).

Also as you can see the top map and the side maps of the skin are streched unequally in proportion. It took me some time to understand how that is possible though. :jester:

However he has proven his work was done properly (at least the second time ) by skinning a livery of no other than loads of lots of diagonal squares onto a formula car.
These are very good, I've used the XFR and VWS files on a couple of skins I made recently, but it makes more sence to me if the arrows were pointing in the opposite direction.
sorry JazzOn, i wasn't trying to hijack your thread or anything like that, i just got buzzed-out by the numbers

my point ws supposed to be: 5tag's opinion was the skin was mapped at the model in a way that is exactly parallel to one of the three dimensions. absolutely correct. he even italicised the at.

so as well as the obvious distortions that you have solved, there is the added distortion of faces sloping away from the mapping plane. technically, every face would need a varying amount of distortion in order for it not to look stretched.

[delete]
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...and then i almost did it again. another drunken rant, but foiled this time by pizza.

nice work btw JazzOn - a lot of work there. i honestly think you've done a great job of simplifying what can be a frustrating process.
hehehehe, no problems. Drunk people are fun and i soon figured you're talking just straight away

You are talking too technically here again (i just like to make paint on cars ), but i think we all agree. Wether you look at it like rubber, light from a beamer/projector or in binary numbers, we all figured how thing gets positioned. Thx for feedback anyways. I'm just a simple guy ;D

@LineR32, (lol) first i thought you mean making the arrows showing vertical instead of horizontal, but i got it now. You mean having the arrows showing at the actual squeezed circle, and it makes sense indeed. But when i started i didn't even intend to make arrows. At first it was just for me anyways, so it would save me time and i wouldn't need to make the circle test for every part im skinning, again and again. Eventually i made the arrows as you see in the TBO cars, on the side, but it was too much. The overview suffered being everything to "clutted". So i made only arrows showing the generall direction, pointing most of the time at the end of a "section" for a qucik look while skinning. And since the numbers only show the "squeezing amount" it didn' appear to me your way. I'm sure there are methods to make it more accurate or detailed, but it works for me.
And in the End it's down to the skinner anyway, to make everything work out, especially on critical areas.

But feel free to edit them as you like
After using them a couple of times I've gotten used to it, so it's not a big problem really.
this is useful
thanks
#42 - pipa
Wow that has always been bugging me, very nice work.
Couldn't you just scale the side of the car to match the skin?

So you get the side view via the CMX-viewer, paste it on top of the skin-layer and scale it down until it's a perfect fit.
You would get a decent scaling, right?
I'm not sure how you mean.

Do you mean cutting out the part of the skin-file that's being placed on the side of the car-model? Yes, you could, but you would need to scale it back to check it on the actual model/CMX-viewer.
You could however, expand/scale the whole skin-file to get around the issue for the sideparts. A few people do this and I think you don't even need to scale back to use the skin in cmx-viewer/in-game, but be aware that you change the stretching-value on other parts by doing that. For example the FX, which has no generall stretching on the front and rear. There, you would produce some and you would have to deal with it anyhow. Of course if you only wanna do stuff on the side, you're fine.

However, there is no patent solution for it since you still need to deal with the car shape. I would only consider this method for doing alot of stickers or something, or even if you doing fine lines around the skin, as this obviously effect every pixel (something I regret considering when i did the JPS FZR. I wish i had done it back then.. revisiting now it's a little bit like coming 2nd in a race xD)

PS. Note: i think if you scale up and down you would also produce jaggy (or blurry) edges, although it might be irrelevant if you start your skin in a 4096* resolution. I did the up and down scaling when i started skinning and got this result. I changed it alot, because i did'nt know what i actually wanted to do on this skin - amateur-ish

Anyhow, you can still use these values of this topic to find the amount to scale/expand the file.

I was a lazy guy so I did not scale all logos. I always scaled the whole template according to the sides-percentage and scaled back the exported files. The advantage is, all logos at the sides can be used at 100% size - and usually there are the most logos.
thank you JazzOn
'bout a year and a half this has been posted and I still some here to check when im skinning,

Thanks again Jazz
@ Joe, hehehe, you can put them into your pro-kits on top and just blend them out, but thanks for the nice comment mate, you're welcome

Cheers, YosSseF
Now why didnt I think of that.ty
I cant thank you enough jazzon for taking the time to research this now I can finally line everything up correctly.

The Stretching of Skins
(60 posts, started )
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