I wondered about this question recently, because of a flamewar between sony and MS fanboys arguing over GT5 & Forza 3.

Basically, sony fanboys are screaming that Forza 3 is rubbish because it "only" has 8 cars racing, where as GT5(p) has more (16 I think?), so this led me onto thinking, how many cars make a good race?.

The Forza 3 developers, Turn10, have stated that the sweet spot for online racing is 8, which is probably technically handy for them!!!.

In my experiance, both with LFS and console racers, that the number of cars racing is fairly irrelevent, its the quality of the racing thats important.

I can remember a number of races, again, both with PC racers, and console racers where there has only been 2 or 3 cars, and the racing has been immensely satisfying, likewise, I can remember races with 20+ cars that have been a bit rubbish.

Surely the "sweet spot" for the number of cars racing is 3? you and 2 others?, because in reality you can only race with the person behind or infront of you?.

Would be interested to hear others thoughts on this.

depends on the skill difference between the field really, a pack of 6 with very similiar pace and good race craft will make very good racing.

and judging by the action I see on GT5 prolouge online, any grid size more than 4 scares me and 70% of the grid will fall away after T1 anyway.

Are we talking about how big starting grids there should be to put up a good race, or how many racecars there are in those games that is suitable for making a good race?

I chose to beive first one.

For me the more the merrier. The 20-24 is my spot, while I actually enjoy the 32 cars start grid in LFS more than anything. The track get crowded and you don't race alone. It of course depends on who's driving, if the players canot race it will be hard to even have a 3-4 car starting grid without crashes, while you probally could have 40+ starting grids with experienced drivers without too much trouble.

So, I'd say LFS is spot on, 20-32 is what I enjoy most, and I personally goes to the servers in LFS with the biggest grids. A suicide - yes in most times, but other times the fun by having clean BIG grids are very, very big! I actually tries to allways get as far behind as possible on the starting grid when it's 32 cars race, I love to see all those cars in front and try to advance in the field. The chance to meet someone equally fast that will put up a great race is big too.

I am not going to try beeing a fanboy of neither of the consoles, but 8 cars on big tracks is superlame in my opinion. Either the console has limitations, or the developers did not think well enough about it. 8 players is... well on a LAN it would be cool, but on internet? That's just too little action for me. 8-12 should be a MINIMUM, while 20+ is what gives the best racing feel to me.

5-10 for pickup races and 15+ for league/organised stuff for me.

I think my question is, whats the minimum amount of cars on track to provide a good racing experiance.

Like I said, I think it depends on the quality of the drivers, but to me, the minimum would be 3.

Big grids and lots of cars on track look good, and are a good selling point, but realistically, I don't think that large grids give any better quality of racing than smaller grids.

But why going online with grids like 4-5 cars? I mean, then it's like doing hotlaping, you basically will drive alone most of the time, if you are lucky you end up with an equally fast person, but if not it's as much fun as doing solo hotlap runs.
That of course is my opinion, but online should offer big grid racing, while lan can do these 3-8 starting fields.

Quote from The Very End :

But why going online with grids like 4-5 cars? I mean, then it's like doing hotlaping, you basically will drive alone most of the time, if you are lucky you end up with an equally fast person, but if not it's as much fun as doing solo hotlap runs.

But this is my point, even in large grids, you are only ever racing 1 or 2 cars, either the car infront of you, or the car behind you.

You can drive in a 20 car grid and be mid pack with half the cars too far infront or too far behind, its happened to me, a large grid and still end up driving for 10 laps alone.

I think it probably depends. A larger field just means more chance of finding a few people around your level. In big races (20+) you're not even competing with most of them anyway, so they become background noise and obstacles rather than opponents.

To answer the question, at least 2. You can have a kick ass race against one other person just as much as you can have a lame race against 30.

Quote from Dajmin :

I think it probably depends. A larger field just means more chance of finding a few people around your level.

Interesting point, the larger the grid, the greater chance you will find someone on your "level" that you can have a close race with.

The more happens in the field, the more fun I get from racing. And in larger grids the chance to have someone equally fast ist far greater. Like TVE I too try to join well populated grids, like the LR server (or CTRA 1/2 last year)

And another factor that adds fun is multiclass racing, but only if the drivers are good enough.

Two.

My preferral is 2. simply the best number, you can freely drive with your friend, lotsa overtakes since no worry of hitting anyone else and a hell lot of close calls when you overtake before turns.
Of course if the racers arent equal its stupid, but if both are good racers and on the same skill level its fun

I've had the most fun from larger grids, but even in league races (with my old, now defunct, team), we struggled to keep things clean at the start with a field of 20. In the more professional leagues, I think you could go all the way to 32 and keep things clean.

While I agree that more drivers means you're more likely to have a close battle with someone your pace, it also means you're more likely to get (more) monkeys on track. Perhaps this is where the compromise of 8 comes from.

Yeah, its the quality vs quantity arguement I guess, quantity doesn't guarentee quality, and vice versa.

There is another factor to throw into the equation for good grid size I think.

Track size. Due to the nature of racing, accidents and taps will happen, and I would hate to be in a race of 4 on the Nordschleife only to spend most of the time 20 seconds behind because I got accidentally tapped into a spin. On the flip side, a 32 car grid on a small short track (can’t remember the track name, but it was the 1st track in Gran Turismo in the Sunday cup race) would be impossible to enjoy or race clean.

Tsukuba

I should saved those replays from LR server yesterday, a leadpack on 8 cars followed by another 10-pack, all within 2-3 seconds, was a blast

As much as possible.

8 is worthless.

May I suggest a poll Dano?
Then people can give their opinion without having to reply in this thread, and we might get a more correct immage of the avarage forumuser's opinion about it.

Is it possible to add one?

Think there should be, like a option called "thread tools" somewhere. Try editing your first post, or look for thread tool around in top of topic, think it should be there. Remember I used some time to find it myself.

30 newbies on a grid where you're lapping 2 or 3 seconds quicker and they all crash into each other does not a fun race make. Size of grid is far less important than a close match in terms of skill/speed.

If you can guarantee a close match then just 2 or 3 other cars is all you need. No point adding another 10 or 20 drivers that will only involve themselves in your race by crashing into you or getting lapped. Some of my most enjoyable races in LFS have been with just 1 or 2 other drivers.

As said above, though, a larger field means it is more likely to find someone at your own pace. But then what's the point in having those 10 or 15 other drivers that you never see unless they're crashing into you when you're really only racing 4 or 5? I don't get any extra thrill from seeing 1of15 instead of 1of4, so as far as I'm concerned you might as well seperate people according to speed unless it's a league race or something.

Yarr. As I said before, I'd rather have a close race against 4 people than a race against 30 where there was a 2 minute gap between each car.

In fact, sometimes it's nice with a smaller grid where you can make more aggressive moves because you don't need to watch for 20 more people behind you. I find the 8 works in Forza 2 because of the way people drive. Could maybe use going up to 12, but that would make some of the small tracks a nightmare.

I guess it all comes down to who you're racing against, how closely matched your skill levels are, how closely matched the cars are and the size of the track you're racing on. Definitely no hard and fast rule on this one

Quote from BlakjeKaas :

As much as possible.

8 is worthless.

Yeah imo it is too, the more the better.

Quality/clean racing may go down but more cars means more bettles and that is more fun.

Hmm, well I like being able to constantly overtake and being overtook, and a big grid can provide that. But then when I was on a server racing LRFs with 4 Dutch guys, that was one of the best racing experiences i've ever had. It really depends I suppose, on a long track, lots of cars. Short track, not so many.