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The car wars thread!
(139 posts, started )
In actual fact, tiagolapa is right.

If I don't have the time for you, why should I bother? Other stuff is more worthy! Oh and trust me, when I can be arsed I will research and put up a very well informed argument as to not only why American V8's are poor, but the American car in general. Right now more personal matters vocate my time. Call it "an excuse that I can't come up with anything good" which I know you're thinking, but it's not. Simply don't have the energy.
Typical online hotshot...when you get beat, just say you weren't trying.

If it is such an easy argument, you shouldn't have to do lots of research and study it. Having a general understanding of cars and the situations surrounding them goes a long way. You even needed someone else to point out your failure and used that as a scapegoat.

Heck, I even opted not to mention how the S2000 is a 2 seater while cars like the Mustang and my Tbird are all 4 seat cars. I was being generous, and you still lost.

Quote from S14 DRIFT :Oh and trust me, when I can be arsed I will research and put up a very well informed argument as to not only why American V8's are poor, but the American car in general.

Ooooo no, I'm shaking! :rolleyes: . In order to do that, you need to rely on more than personal experience with TWO American cars and one book.......and you need to know at least the SLIGHTEST bit about what you're talking about as opposed to just regurgitating what people/magazines/books tell you (ie how you believed the publication that claimed only a 15.6 for an 88 Mustang, while I myself and many others have proven that horribly wrong).
Just as I said.
Quote from tiagolapa :or somebody likes to make a fool out of himself

Looking at past posts in different threads...definately.
Quote from S14 DRIFT :Just as I said.

Sorry, no matter how you try to downplay it, you lose.

Quote from zeugnimod :Looking at past posts in different threads...definately.

So I suppose this isn't S14's first failure, as several have mentioned in this thread.

It's such a shame that some people just can't bare to look at things with an open mind. There are so many awesome cars to build, compete against, and admire...everything from huge land yachts with huge engines to cars that are basically go karts with a 4 cylinder strapped to them...
Just wondering... kingcars, have you ever driven an S2000 hard on some twisty roads? Because it doesn't seem like you have If you still choose not to, then you are truly missing out, which is your own loss! You will have a blast. Don't take my word for it. Go find out for yourself

There's a reason why the S2000 hasn't changed much since its introduction... It has always been considered a very great sports car to begin with:

Straight - SIX
"You say you're into sports cars? You say you are truly hardcore? Put your money where your mouth is and step up to S2000 ownership. The rarified 9000 RPM redline of the 2.0 liter naturally aspirated screamer is truly addictive, and the twitchy rear end will test your oversteering reflexes to the max. The finest four-cylinder engine in the world." They rated the car a 6 point on a 6 point scale.

Michael La Fave - automotive-review.com
"The S2000 on the other hand is a car that was created for the single purpose of socially irresponsible driving, a dream car for the true enthusiast. After getting out of the S2000 every other car feels heavy, cumbersome, imprecise, untrustworthy and just plain less fun. It is the one car I desire for myself more than any other."

David Bellm for ModernRacer.com
"Those who seek a sports car that can double as a relaxed long-distance cruiser should look elsewhere first - Nissan 350Z, and Porsche Boxster come to mind. But for those who relish the delight of blazing down public roads in a car that feels so untamed, so race-prepared that it almost seems as though it should be illegal, S2000 is about the only game in town for less-than-Ferrari prices."

Road & Track
"I had honestly forgotten just how good a sports car the S2000 is. The gearbox is quite simply the best in the world, with wonderfully short, extremely positive throws. This current S2000 is less twitchy than the original, and was the easiest with which to execute beautiful 4-wheel drifts through Buttonwillow's faster corners." "Man, is it fun," said Mike Monticello, Associate Editor.

Car and Driver
"Its fabulous engine aside, the element that really puts the S2000 on a higher handling plane is its chassis. The Honda’s structure provides a textbook example of how to achieve exemplary rigidity in a roofless unit body, and it may very well be the stiffest roadster chassis on earth." "A purist's sports car, and an extraordinary performance buy."

European Car
"In the end I can tell how much fun a car is by how it makes me drive. In the S2000, I'm a raging ****. I want to hit 9000 RPM at every shift, every stop sign requires threshold braking and every corner is a power slide. Owning an S2000 would wreak havoc on my driving record, but that extra $20,000 will pay a lot of legal bills - advantage Honda." (Face-to-Face comparison with a Porsche Boxster S)

Hot Compacts & Imports
"Honda’s Little Miracle" "...that's 2 hp per cubic inch, or the same output found in a NHRA Pro Stock car." "...because the S2000 is a Honda, you can expect it to perform with race car intensity every day for years. Heck, with proper maintenance it might live longer than you."

Edmunds - first drive review
"VETC kicks in, activating a different set of camshaft profiles. The S2000 magically transforms from vanilla roadster to kamikaze attack plane. Scenery in the windshield whizzes by like somebody suddenly hit the VCR fast-forward button. By the noise, you swear you're going to blow it up. Time to shift. As the engine continues to warp upwards towards 9000, the snarling and exhaust plumb into your gut and buzz up to your brain. Take the sound of an Integra GS-R engine, add some Honda CBR 900RR motorcycle and a dash of Jordan/Mugen Formula One race car, and you have something close to the sound of the S2000. It's a feeling that you're getting away with something truly special." "As a streetable race car, the Honda S2000 excels."

Los Angeles Times
"Go figure your chances of walking into your nearest dealer and beating the elbow-shoving to get dibs on an S2000, probably the spunkiest, most satisfying mainstream sports car since the 1962 Porsche 356B." "Many manufacturers brag of race-inspired engineering. Most of it is race-inspired hype and hyperbole involving old mechanicals barely brushed by racing. Not Honda. When its engineers, even its advertising department, talk of the race-bred technology of the S2000, the reference is to a direct borrowing from Honda-powered cars and victories..."

Newsday
"In all, the S2000 is exactly what Honda intended it to be: A true sportscar in the traditional vein for a special few drivers..."

Porsche (via R&T)
"I dialed up Porsche for a test Boxster (99 percent of the time a successful shake-down). Only to be told, Sorry, but no. No? I couldn’t believe my ears. Apparently, Porsche was suddenly being hit up by every car magazine in the country asking for Boxsters, which could be due to only one thing: the Honda S2000's becoming available to the press. Porsche decided it was not in its interest to facilitate comparisons..."

Ward’s Auto World
"You're convinced you are a hideously overpaid Formula One pilot/god."

Washington Post
"The S2000 is everything a sports car ought to be - fun, powerful, nimble, and magical in its ability to transport both soul and body to a better place."

Kansas City Star
"...its 240 horsepower screams like a caged cat. This may be a small package but it packs a good-sized punch. If it surprises you to find Honda and sports car in the same sentence, consider this: Honda racing engines have repeatedly been champions..."

Fort Worth Star-Telegram
"The open-top roadster from the '60s is back with a vengeance in the all-new Honda S2000." "...this Honda roadster brings back the best of the open-top sports cars of the '60s but with some '90s comforts that don't spoil the package. Power and road-handling are superb, styling is eye-catching, and driving the S2000 is a dream."

Road & Track
"The S2000's 64.0 mph romp through the slalom is among the best we've ever seen."

Road & Track Road Test Annual 2001
"No question, Honda has bragging rights, having produced the first 2.0-liter production-car capable of 9000 RPM and producing an astonishing 120 bhp/liter in the process, with piston speeds that exceed those in Formula 1 racing." "The S2000 was able to dance through corners the fastest and with the least amount of effort." It beated the lap times of the Boxster S ($54,300), BMW M ($43,700), and Audi TT ($43,000).

Automobile magazine
"...the perfect roadster."

Top Gear
"...if the Boxster wins hearts in the showroom, it's the Honda that will win souls on the road." The English road tester, Vicki Butler Henderson, went on to buy one and I'm told she's now on her second one.

About Cars Test Drive
"Driving the 2001 Honda S2000 is the closest I’ll ever come to being in the pilot's seat of a vintage Formula One car."

Automotive-Review.com, tester - Bettencourt
"...I’m just blown away by the way the thing feels from the driver's office... this is not another half-sporting, half-luxury poseur convertible. This is a serious driving machine."

Automotive-Review.com, tester - LaFave
"This is it! If you've ever dreamed of a race car for the street this is it. Perhaps not in terms of outright acceleration or equipment details but in every other respect it is; brakes, suspension, transmission and 9000 RPM redline." "The brakes and the transmission shifter are unequivocally the best I have ever used." "Did I mention this is the most fun car I've ever driven!"

Road & Track.com
"If early impressions count, the S2000 - priced at around $32,000 may well be the cause of some sleepless nights in Germany."

Edmund’s Review.com
"It's all about the little red button...labeled engine start, the button reflects the racing heritage found in the S2000 roadster." "...an excellent alternative to the BMW Z3, the Mercedes-Benz SLK, and the Porsche Boxster. Out of that group, the S2000 is the most performance-oriented."

Edmund’s 2000 Roadster Comparison Test
"First Place. Who'da thunk a Honda could inspire such passion..." "Well, we did, it does, and this was a test of roadsters with more than 200 horsepower costing less than $50,000..." (Tested against BMW M, Audi TT, MB SLK 320, and Porsche Boxster base model)

Car & Driver Best List
"The S2000 is wasted on summer evening jaunts to the local A&W. The S2000 is a unique and seductive tool for speed." "...to produce tenacious and tolerant handling that makes even ham-handed and footed drivers feel like F1 ace Michael Schumacher."

Cars and Bikes (Tokyo)
"I've tested the Nissan GT-R racing type car and though it's in the same class of performance as the S2000, it lacked the "fits-like-a-glove" interior, open top and just wasn't the fun this Honda was - at two million yen more in price. The only Japanese car that comes close is another Honda, the NSX racing type, but with its price tag of around ten million yen it's out of reach for most of us."

Honda Tuning
"There are some cars that seem perfect straight from the factory. The Porsche 911 Turbo... Ferraris, McLarens, Aston Martins... The Honda S2000 is arguably one of these vehicles."

Forbes
"...and its all-too-willing 240 horsepower engine cranks out more juice per cylinder than a $169,000 Ferrari 360 Modena."

Cars.com
"Once it reaches 5000 RPM or so, the S2000 lunges forward like a virtual rocket, its engine screaming passionately through each step of the close-ratio six-speed gearbox. As if acceleration prowess weren't enough, razor-sharp steering, disciplined handling talents and athletic cornering ability blend with excellent braking capacity to produce a driving experience that approaches racing car level. It's really no surprise since the S2000 looks as if it's ready to whip onto a racetrack somewhere."

New Car Net
"...a two-seater that redefines the essence of sports car motoring."

USA Today
"The highly tuned engine, already yowling like a beast at 7000 RPM, slides into a different dimension as it closes on the 9000 RPM danger point. Deeper than primal, it feels as if the buzz, the excitement, is coming not from the car, but from within your skull, perhaps your soul."

The New York Times
"If roadsters can cure a midlife crises, this may be a good time to have one. Take it out once and you'll drive it in your dreams."

Sport Compact Car
"The S2000 feels like nothing less than a Formula Ford with bodywork." "If you've driven an Elan (Lotus), you've got a good idea what to expect here. Paring knife reflexes, peaky power band, toggle switch shifting. Chapman's dream is all present in the new Honda. The only thing missing are the leaks and the breakage. You’ll have to supply those yourself."

Car (UK) magazine
"This is one of the great engines. Definitely top 10, probably top 3."

Nashville Scene
"I will boldly defy any genuine aficionado – particularly one with road racing experience – not to fall head-over-heels in forbidden, Lolita-lust love with this champing, snorting filly of a classic roadster."

Motorweek
"On its performance merits alone, the Honda S2000 stacks up well against the likes of the Porsche Boxster and BMW Z3. But consider also its $32,415 base price, and the S2000 becomes a screaming performance car bargain."

Auto Week
"Some around here call the S2000 the best Honda ever. Whether you agree or not, most at least believe the little roadster has already carved out a chapter for itself in the annals of future classic car-dom. And it's done that in less than three years on the market." "...the S2000 - because it existed at all is legendary already."

Automobile magazine
"European rivals such as Porsche, BMW, and Audi charge thousands more for this level of performance, although they also provide a far more comprehensive complement of amenities as part of the basic package. You want aesthetics? Buy a TT. Pure performance at a reasonable price? The S2000 tops the charts."

Consumers Reports
"Our top-rated roadster, the Honda S2000, slightly outscored the Corvette and Boxster in our tests and has excellent reliability."

Kansas City Star
"...diehard performance drivers will relish its cat-quick reflexes and giant-killer engine."

Edmunds (road test follow up - 2002)
"And as long as Honda continues to build the S2000, we'll be sure to save a spot for Honda right next to the prancing horse (Ferrari) and checkered flags (Corvette) next time we're out for a midday cruise down PCH (Pacific Coast Highway)."

Drive.com (Aust)
"VERDICT: If the S2000 doesn't win every car award this year, the judges should pack up and go home."

Motor Trend
"Imagine if Formula One engineers built a sports car. Well, they did."
Some of those quotes are a little over the top i'd say, a little exaggerated. Nevertheless, i can certainly agree with most of them.

Everytime i find myself driving some twisty mountain road with no other cars in sight, i'm thinking "this has never been so much fun before!" (except for the 944 turbo, which comes REALLY close even if it's not a roadster). Race car feeling for the street. Period.
My only concern with the S2000 is the rubbish handling (as reported the world over) of the early ones (before the massive update - it HAS changed since it was first in the showrooms), and VTEC. I can't stand VTEC. You drive arount 99% of the time with no power because you aren't doing 6,000,000RPM, and if you try hard you get a small jump in performance... just before you change gear.

If I had one then I'd probably disable the VTEC and put in a halfway-house cam profile. I've not driven an S2000, but I have driven other cars with the same system (or principle) and it's horrible.

But I'd still like one away, just without VCRAP.
Delete post lol
Quote from tristancliffe :My only concern with the S2000 is the rubbish handling (as reported the world over) of the early ones (before the massive update - it HAS changed since it was first in the showrooms), and VTEC. I can't stand VTEC. You drive arount 99% of the time with no power because you aren't doing 6,000,000RPM, and if you try hard you get a small jump in performance... just before you change gear.

If I had one then I'd probably disable the VTEC and put in a halfway-house cam profile. I've not driven an S2000, but I have driven other cars with the same system (or principle) and it's horrible.

But I'd still like one away, just without VCRAP.

I can't say i've noticed something i'd title as "rubbish" handling. The car has great handling, but it's not forgiving. If you don't know what you're doing, it's easy to screw up. Especially in the wet you should be extra careful.

I've driven quite a few RWD cars in my life, and the S2000 is one of the most fun ones. I don't know how to describe it best, but it feels very honest. It doesn't take a lot to provoke a powerslide if you really want to... and if you do, and have driven other RWD cars before, i can tell you, it's very controllable. I've never had so much fun kicking the tail out a little bit with any other cars i've owned before (maybe the Fiat 124 spider from my brother).

And about VTEC... why is it something bad? Just because it's called VTEC and instantly reminds you of all those ricers in their civics? It's just variable valve adjustment? Many other cars do the same, but don't call it VTEC. Maybe i'm wrong... just guessing here.

The lack of any torque below 6k rpm isn't such a big deal in my opinion. I don't use the car as a daily driver. It would be boring, because with the traffic you have in switzerland on normal roads, it's as you said... you can barely drive the car like it should be driven. Then again, i couldn't do that with my 944 turbo either... as soon as it started being fun, i was driving at illegal speeds already and had to step off the gas pedal. The best car for daily commuting is my VW Polo TDI... perfect low end torque and a soft and comfortable suspension.

However, as i said above... on twisty mountain roads it's pure fun, best i've had in a long time. The only area where you feel the lack of low end torque is in 1st gear below 6k rpm. If you are past that, it's quite fast, and not a problem at all to keep it in high enough rpms. 1st gear tops out at 70km/h, 2nd at 100km/h, 3rd at 140km/h, etc. Shift at redline and you'll be at exactly 6k rpm in the next gear. If you know how to shift, there is no torque missing in this car.

Again, it's not a daily driver car (unless you want to waste it for slowly commuting in traffic). In this car, you don't want to shift early and drive at low rpms... you want to hear the engine scream, reach those 9k rpms again and again, etc. I can only imagine from those mountain roads i've driven so far, how much fun it must be on a racetrack.
If I had one, it would be my everyday car. And I don't want a car that has to be revved to get any torque. It's why I won't buy an RX-8.

It's not the VTEC ricer image that puts me off. It's the fact that a) it changes suddenly and b) it happens so late in the rev range as to be unusable on the road. If it was genuinely infinitely variable cam timing, lift and duration I'd probably love it. But having a sporty second camshaft you use only when the days starts with a N just isn't my idea of a good car.

I won't own a diesel if I have any choice. I like driving and the environment too much
I guess it comes down to personal taste aswell. I can cetainly see your point. Just like i understand the viewpoint of my brother and father, who are both car enthusiasts and both of them hate the engine characteristics of the S2000 after they had their test drive.

I also agree that the real kick of the engine comes quite late (as you say, shortly before redline), but it's not like there is no power at 6k and above. I've owned an MX5 NB before, and the S2000 certainly runs a lot faster above 6k than the miata ever will. For a roadster, that's plenty enough power for my taste. If i compare it to the 944 turbo however, it's not that impressive of course.

I can overlook the low end torque, because everything else makes up for it. Then again, as i said above, i can understand anybody who won't feel satisfied. Exactly because of the reasons you've mentioned.
Power above 6k is certainly not lacking. As a weekend car, or for something to play in, it's probably ideal, especially if you get on with VTEC. It just doesn't tick quite enough boxes for me. They look nice though
a gen2 3sgte if pretty neat if low end torque is what youre looking for
the variable inlet runners are used to produce a pretty much perfectly flat torque curve from 3k to 6k

The car wars thread!
(139 posts, started )
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