The online racing simulator
Replay Analyser Tools [RAF Data]: Blessing or Curse?
Ok guys, i know that there's an official thread for one of these "things" (or tools) already but i'd like to discuss their usuage rather than suggesting any improvements.

Im somehow under the impression that some people have got completely mistaken their existence. Im using them myself but i would never use _the exact same setup_ (or just with minor changes, like adding 0,1 "here" and removing -0,0001 "there"...) that someone was using to beat me with, unless i've got permission to do so from the owner, from what i believe, 98% of the people i've seen don't have.

The way i see it, setups are just like skins, creations. Now for skins there are existing some rules, like don't use skins from (other) teams, don't edit (without permission) et cetera. Nothing i know of does exist for setups.

People doing so (using the exact same setup...) really are having a lack of respect in my eyes, are very lazy or maybe just don't know the definition of courtesy, or maybe just a combination of everything, you get the picture. At the same time, it's also very interesting to see, who is able to handle the crucial date we've been given, that we are allowed to have access to, thoughtfully, and who is just exploiting this opportunity for his own benefit -> to gain a WR (or just a faster time than somebody else) without doing much for it (or say, leaving out half of the work that would be needed). Of course, the idea is to benefit from them toolz, they are bringing up a lot of competitors that would never have been able to "raise" (so rapidly) (at least the majority of the people that are not very good at creating setups), under "normal conditions". According to this, the competition itself is unhealthy, since there are a lot of lurkers (some of them are also very ungratful indeed) and maybe much more than actual creators.

For example: One guy, somewhere on top of the WR holders chart, basically never created a setup all by himself but simple took the data of the person holding the WR for the particular combination and copied & pasted it. I mean,...?! What the heck is wrong about creating your own setup (or at least clearly personalizing it), getting to know what everything is about and how it is interacting with eachother?

I believe that a setup is, at least, only and/ or just half the battle. You can be a great driver using a crap (or standard) setup, you'll reach the limit of the car (rather than your personal limits or the actual limits of the car, set up properly for the given conditions/ track...) much sooner and will be, in most cases, no longer competetive. So according to this, the statement: "Its the driver, not the setup." was never really valid, at least for me. It works much better the other way around and of course, in the end, a great driver with a great setup will beat anybody around, no matter if they are using his setup or not. So ultimately, there shouldn't be a problem now should it?

What do you think, am i missing something?
Anything that can be obtained with at least RAFA is completely fair game to me, and I'd definitely expect serious WR hunters to at least test each others' setup parameters that can be obtained by using it. By now everyone knows that setups on LFSW can be scrutinised, if one doesn't want their setup accessible via RAF analysis it's down to not uploading the SPRs. To put it in a terrible analogy, F1 teams even analyse engine sound pitch and measure wing deflection from slow-mos to gain advantage or knowledge.

If a way of hiding one's setups will be implemented I won't be crying, but personally I like it as it is. There's also the other side to this, where one can test drive a setup and then upon finding the handling nice, looking up the reason it's so nice and applying the principle to other setups.
Well i do understand, its just a game afterall, or a simulator respectively. Its just that, how shall i put it, its a bit contradictory really. Here we have the "game" where people are helping eachother and so on. Its all friendly and competition, at least when it comes to public servers and to a certain degree, even for the hotlap mode, is or should be well balanced and healthy and the fun (while pushing eachothers limits for instance) should have highest priority, right? Because after all, its not about money or marketing related stuff. "Its just a game." So therefore, i dont have a problem whatsoever. But, in F1 and simular racing series, a setup is what can and will make a difference, besides the driver & the team involved of course, and as far as i know, this part of "development" is well secured from one another.

So with this in mind, the current hotlap chart would look totally different without the RAF data available. Not only that, without setup sharing, which admittedly is a great feature of this game really, online racing also would be looking a lot different.

Just for clarification, i only want to know what other people think and perhaps get a better understanding on this matter, because this has been bugging me since day one. Thats all.

Cheers
Quote from 510N3D :in F1 and simular racing series

The way I see it is that hotlap setups often have settings that make them poor for race distances, e.g. requiring drifting in slow corners, excessive camber, pressures etc. I don't think there are that many serie that require hotlaps uploaded on LFSW for qualification, so these race setups are still quite safe. Of course some setups can be used even in long races, but I see it being less likely as physics improve.

Quote :So with this in mind, the current hotlap chart would look totally different without the RAF data available.

Perhaps there would be less incentive to do hotlaps without the ease of copying setups, but imo the very top of the charts wouldn't be that different. I'd like to think that the people who regularly are the fastest really can tweak a setup to fit them. Out of the people holding the most WRs, I doubt there are many who only use direct copies of setups. Personally I wouldn't worry about the rest because great setup or good, they aren't going to beat the real Martians
Well it seem that there's nobody else really having an opinion on this matter. Anyhow, converting my thoughts into plain text already was slightly helpful and thanks NotAnIllusion for your input.
Quote from 510N3D :...and thanks NotAnIllusion for your input.

His name's a misnomer. He's really just a figment of your imagination. So am I. You're talking to yourself. You're insane.

Yeah, it's not exactly good for a driver's development to not know what different settings do, nor is it really sporting to steal someone's set, but people will do what they can to gain a competitive edge, both in real and sim racing.
I'm quite new to LFS and i'm still on the demo. I'm waiting for a wheel because my ps2 joypad has its limits i guess.

Imo, even if you get the WR setup, i doubt you will do the same time with it has the driver who developed the setup. Ever driver has his own style i guess.

I have personnaly downloaded a setup from http://www.setupgrid.net/.
I have tested the car with that setup and i have made changes to it after every lap i tested. I just could not drive with the original version.

As it is now, the setup i have is totally changed from the one i downloaded, i found it easier to develop my own from the downloaded setup instead of the original from the game.

I'm not really sure i understand the what the RAF data is all about though.
Also, i hope i didn't do anything illegal by trying another setup from that site? thanks for letting me know.
Illegal !?!?!?! I really don't think so.
Why would you think that ??
Quote from Ripley :Illegal !?!?!?! I really don't think so.
Why would you think that ??

I simply wasn't sure at the time i downloaded a setup, lol

FGED GREDG RDFGDR GSFDG