The online racing simulator
Forza Motorsports 3
(3391 posts, started )
Quote from Dajmin :Yes, those trees are definitely not high polycount

Actually they looks really awful. I could understand if those trees would be after background, but they stands next to the road.

That will not happen with GT5
It's the outside of the track along a straight, I assume they just don't expect much to happen there. And reading the article that danowat posted, you'll (hopefully) understand why they've cut corners in some places.

Shocking that something with a more powerful graphics card would be able to put out more impressive graphics, though. Last thing anyone would expect
Quote from Dajmin :
Shocking that something with a more powerful graphics card would be able to put out more impressive graphics, though. Last thing anyone would expect

Actually the 360 has alegedly better graphic card It's all in teH Cellz!1
I don't think anyone would argue that GT5 has the edge on visual prowess.

However, if you read that article I linked to, you will begin to understand a little better, why.
That was... well, strange...
When watching the videos from the article I thought: "Interesting! They actually did improve the artwork! The new version really is better." - Then I noticed that I was looking at Forza 2 the whole time.
Perhaps I just didn't notice the small details they improved because I never played any Forza game. The Forza 2 veterans may be jumping for joy over the improvements, but I just can't see them. As I said, on my first impression Forza 3 looks worse than 2.

However, when I tried the game at the last IAA I didn't consider the graphics to be any possible point of criticism. They're pretty solid and functional.

Vain
The AA have opened a flying school

skin credit :Beefyman666
Attached images
Forza2 (1).jpg
To all you people playing with pads...

I tried out a few different controller settings today. I changed a few things and find the game MUCH more enjoyable now.

I went back to medium sensitivity in my xbox profile settings, since it felt a little too nervous on high. Furthermore i changed the advanced controller settings in Forza. Basically i've completely removed all the deadzones... and ohh boy, what a huge improvement!

Steering is perfect now, super smooth and reacts to the slightest input. The feeling of not being able to make very small steering corrections is gone.

While the steering is the biggest improvement, i also love the changes in braking and throttle. It's much more "adjustable" now while driving and for the first time in a console game i've turned off ABS as a side effect.

I suggest everybody to have a look into the controller deadzones in the Forza 3 options. For me it improved the game a whole lot.

PS: beefyman - Holy ****! Nice photo of the 962. For a second there i thought it's a real photograph.
Quote from jibber :<lots of text>

I shall have a look at the settings shortly and see if I can feel the difference. I know my sensitivity is on medium in the profile settings, Forza settings are default though.

As for that pic, thanks. It looks good but i've only just noticed a booboo on the middle of the armco/barrier. I've got another batch of photos ready to be uploaded but it seems the Forza server has gone down for a few hours.

Time to carry on with season play, getting close to getting all golds. I'd say atleast 70%+.
Quote from jibber :PS: beefyman - Holy ****! Nice photo of the 962. For a second there i thought it's a real photograph.

I thought the same thing.
So, I bought the 360 wireless wheel and FM3.

I'm really enjoying FM3 it's a lot of fun. It's just a well made game. Tuning, customizing, testing and racing.

Online races aren't as good as I hoped but I haven't tried that much. Having too much fun doing the seasons.

Now, I'm no fanboy. I have both GT5P/DFP and FM3/MS Wheel. I tested same cars same track (Sazuka). GT5P handling is closer to "sim" than FM3. In FM3 the supercars are just too easy to drive. It's too easy to catch oversteer. You go into these long drifts like a pro drifter by accident.

It's almost like the physics were tweaked to make drifting easier.

I tested Ferrari 599, F430, Ford Focus and Evo X at Sazuka.

FM3 has better engine/tire sounds. Overall FM3 is a much better game than GT5P but that's comparing a full game to a demo.

Hmm...maybe I better put on my flame retardant coat.
Quote from somasleep :Snip....

Everyone is entitled to their own opinion

I'll only make one point, hard doesn't equal realistic, take a Ferrari out on the track, and it isn't that hard to hold it in a lurid slide, you only have to see the talentless wonder jeremy clarkson doing it to how simple it can be.
Also, take the FZ50 out in LFS, its not a "hard" car to drive.
GT series has always tricked people into thinking its realistic by reducing grip.

@Jibber, I'll try out those settings, nice one
Yet my opinion gets repressed like the Jews of Nazi Germany.

Such double standards...

Quote from dawesdust_12 :Yet my opinion gets repressed like the Jews of Nazi Germany.

Such double standards...


Your opinion gets repressed because there's just no talking to you, unless somebody does agree with every little thing you say. Go figure.
Quote from danowat :
I'll only make one point, hard doesn't equal realistic, take a Ferrari out on the track, and it isn't that hard to hold it in a lurid slide, you only have to see the talentless wonder jeremy clarkson doing it to how simple it can be.
Also, take the FZ50 out in LFS, its not a "hard" car to drive.
GT series has always tricked people into thinking its realistic by reducing grip.

I basically agree with this. It's not that hard to hold a slide in real life (depending on the car). At least GT5P (or rfactor) is giving a pretty wrong impression about this, it's unrealistically hard in that game.

I'm not sure how easy it would be to go and drift around a track in a Ferrari. Middle engined cars are not as easy to control as other cars (over the limit). And i'm sure clarkson can drive much better than most forum members here (maybe not faster), even if he seems to make a different impression.

The thing that is too easy in Forza is snap oversteer. In all the time i was playing Forza (FM1 and 2 included), i never had a car "snap back" in the other direction for over-correcting a slide. In real life, this could result in snap oversteer and a spinout eventually. Never happend to me in Forza.

Other than that, Forza feels pretty realistic when it comes to drifting.

And to those people who say it's too hard to spin... go take a powerful RWD car around Fujimi Kaido, and try to drift... and i mean nice, big and long drifts with nice angle and speed. Try to drift the whole track... every corner. I guarantee you'll eventually spin out (especially when tyres get hot) if you're not careful.

Maybe it's a tad too forgiving/easy, but not on an unrealistic level.
Anyone who thinks its easy, wants to try my A class Corvette Z05!!!!.

I'd agree with the snap oversteer thing to, I think up to the limit, the tyre physics are pretty good, but things get a bit forgiving once you go past the limit.

FM3 isn't perfect, but its much more convincing than anything in the GT series, I'd say that its pretty much as convincing as LFS is.

I really hope GT5 has as good physics, could you imagine GT5 visuals, with FM3's physics and customization?, man, that would be heaven on a disc.
Quote from danowat :I'd say that its pretty much as convincing as LFS is.

Exactly what i always thought aswell. Just like LFS, Forza has this same feel of "things are actually happening" (dunno how to explain this best).

Wait until you fiddle with the deadzones... you'll love it even more!
I agree with jibber and danowat on the pendulum/snapyness effect. Although I must say I don't have that experiences from real life as any of cars I've driven never snapped back violently, but I saw people spinning out like that on yt so I guess it should be more pronounced in f3, but not much more.

But the most important thing is that physics feel right, there are no fundamental flaws to it. You won't be "WTFing" at weird physics bugs while driving/drifting/racing.
I've actually experianced worse snap back in FWD cars IRL, something which can be seen in FM3 too.
Quote from jibber :
The thing that is too easy in Forza is snap oversteer. In all the time i was playing Forza (FM1 and 2 included), i never had a car "snap back" in the other direction for over-correcting a slide. In real life, this could result in snap oversteer and a spinout eventually. Never happend to me in Forza.

If you're playing with a control pad it's impossible to overcorrect, only to correct or stay just short of that point. In reality, when cars do that rapid fishtail from sliding to one side and then t-boning the outside barrier it's usually because the driver steered too far and lifted the throttle simultaneously or the rear tyres regained grip abruptly for some other reason (assuming rwd).

Someone with a wheel is best placed to try and make it happen, and I'm quite confident that it would, but I'm not surprised that it's not easy to do it with a thumbstick for steering and a steering "nanny".
Quote from danowat :I've actually experianced worse snap back in FWD cars IRL, something which can be seen in FM3 too.

I guess I should have added I've only had track experience in rwd cars.

But have done some ass dragging in low powered small fwd. The only time I expected nervousness was at the end of slide on very wet road when having too much wheel spin on front: but still nothing uncontrolable. On the other hand on dry road it was no problem.

But still never spun out because of the snapback. The only times I spun out was when I had too much angle or did other mistake (like bad drift transition): but those are just general drifting errors that didn't have anything to do with snapyness. Was driving for time as well, and didn't experience anything uncontrolable then either.

Quote from sinbad :Someone with a wheel is best placed to try and make it happen, and I'm quite confident that it would, but I'm not surprised that it's not easy to do it with a thumbstick for steering and a steering "nanny".

Can do, but I still have to kinda force it as make a dumb error that I know will provoke it. But it's still not ultra agressive snapback, which I'm not sure if is realistic or not. It would be best if someone went to dry (very important that it's dry and not wettish or wet) track and did couple of dumb tests in rwd and fwd car with this.
Quote from kamkorPL :
Can do, but I still have to kinda force it as make a dumb error that I know will provoke it. But it's still not ultra agressive snapback, which I'm not sure if is realistic or not. It would be best if someone went to dry (very important that it's dry and not wettish or wet) track and did couple of dumb tests in rwd and fwd car with this.

I can tell you from experience with the MX-5, 944 turbo and S2000, in dry conditions, that dumb mistakes (wheels not pointing straight when rear tyres regain grip) ultimately "reward" you with sometimes pretty violent snap back oversteer.

I rarely experienced it with the S2000 since it's just such a great handling car and except for one time, i never made wrong corrections in a slide (and even then it wasn't that bad, but yes, it did snap back). The MX-5 was nasty if you didn't pay attention (not so good feeling for where the front wheels are pointing in a slide). The 944 turbo was very good, but one time i overcorrected and got slapped in the face also by a pretty violent snap back.

I guess tyres play their part too in this regard. MX-5 had the smallest, but was also the lightest car. S2000 has still small tyres, but more weight. 944 Turbo had 245 in the rear (stock) and 255 in the rear with 17 inch wheels. Regarding dumb mistakes, i think the 944 with the widest tyres of the three cars could bite you the most, since it had quite a lot of grip (so when you regain traction, it's a lot more agressive).

If you drive perfectly however (perfect corrections), then you'll never notice a thing.

EDIT: Just to make things clear... The wheels really need to be pointing in another direction (not just slightly) when they should be straight while rear tyres regain grip. Otherwise the snap back won't be very agressive.
Quote from jibber :EDIT: Just to make things clear... The wheels really need to be pointing in another direction (not just slightly) when they should be straight while rear tyres regain grip. Otherwise the snap back won't be very agressive.

True, but to do this you have to exit with power on and countersteer to zero gradually . Sometimes drifters get lazy and just end a drift by letting off throttle and letting the car "snap back" a tad. I used to do that too, mostly due to lazyness as originaly e30 has 1440 degrees of steering.

Jibber, maybe you don't have those problems (or rarely like you've said) anymore with s2000, because your driving technique improved over the years when you've had mx-5?

Or maybe by wheels pointing another direction too much you mean clear driver error, which is more like steering so far into the countersteer that it's like initiating a drift transition?
Quote from kamkorPL :
Jibber, maybe you don't have those problems (or rarely like you've said) anymore with s2000, because your driving technique improved over the years when you've had mx-5?

Or maybe by wheels pointing another direction too much you mean clear driver error, which is more like steering so far into the countersteer that it's like initiating a drift transition?

Yes to both points.

Forza Motorsports 3
(3391 posts, started )
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