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Cliffe crashes out of the lead
(324 posts, started )
Quote from tristancliffe :Latest race video, with overlayed data.

etc.

Ha, you were driving at Silverstone the day after I was driving there - the Friday was sunny and dry, so I guess we lucked out. We were on Southern Circuit, mind...
Quote from tristancliffe :You can be honourary Kev

Huh ? How's that gonna work ?

I'm neither funny nor a homosexual

(nice spelling btw )


Quote from Mille Sabords :New poll for this year's awards: Best Kev sidekick.
You get one point

And you can bugger off too. The last thing i'd want to be known as, is "Kev's sidekick" :drunk: "The Boy Blunder in flat cap and hobnailed boots work'n down't pi't for thruppence'haypney and a teapot full'o'lard"..Eee they don't know they're born these days

...although, the chap who played Robin to Adam West's Batman became a porn star in later life...i could handle that *cough*
Quote from tristancliffe : ....effectively it's not going to happen, but until it's mathematically impossible I'll keep trying. You never know...

Absolutely, if your rivals get a couple of DNFs like you say then you'll be right back in with a shot, so keep the pedal to the metal!

You say you're racing at Snet at the end of this month with the F3 guys, which date exactly? We're there on the 22nd but I doubt we'll be at the same meeting as the F3 cars will be. I never normally like Snet, what with our straight-line-speed issues coming into play with the length of the back straight, but after watching the BTCC guys there a few days back I'm really up for it. Don't like the look of the new kerb on the way into Russells, but I hope they keep that tyre stack there on the second part of the chicane as you then know the maximum you can really cut the kerb.
August 29th/30th

I like Snet! Partly because I've done the most miles there, with testing and two meetings per year, and partly because I've always gone well there. Something about it just suits my style. I love the fast corners (Riches, Bombhole, Coram), I love the trailbraking required into the Esses, and I actually like Russells as you can really get your teeth into it and attack... One of my favourites!

I've seen the new kerb. Not sure what that'll be like for a single seater, but I imagine it'll slow the corner down a bit as it'll tighten the line for the second part if we can't cut it. Didn't notice the tyre stack - I'm not a fan of them, mainly because they weigh about as much as my car, and I'm a bit more exposed than a tintop... But I'm sure I'll cope
Wow tristan, all of this stuff is really interesting.
Though a question, what are the chances of it raining at Snett? I mean with the F3 spec cars and the 20-30bhp faster i could imagine if it rained it wouldnt be much use but from memory snet is a fast track, except for a few parts.
Anyway so how did you find the rain conditions fun challenging faster then ur rivals ect? I know you've proberly answerd it before but im just curious myself.
It's not a tyre stack, its a big foam thing with a cover, at least it was last year when someone hit it and the foam was exposed before the marshals fixed it, it looked the same this year when I saw it at the BTCC.
Still, the psycological effect is enough to stop people driving at it I would imagine.
Quote from AstroBoy :Wow tristan, all of this stuff is really interesting.
Though a question, what are the chances of it raining at Snett? I mean with the F3 spec cars and the 20-30bhp faster i could imagine if it rained it wouldnt be much use but from memory snet is a fast track, except for a few parts.
Anyway so how did you find the rain conditions fun challenging faster then ur rivals ect? I know you've proberly answerd it before but im just curious myself.

It's England. The chances of rain are quite high!!!! No, seriously, we just don't know. It could be a 30° day without a cloud in the sky, or.... If it rains then we'll be at less of a disadvantage, because the peak power is less of a problem. But we'll see. It is a fast track, and you need to retain downforce for the fast corners, so you need a decent amount of power to overcome the wing drag. It's all inter-related. As we're a guest in a strange championship running a strange setup we'll just do our best and see where we come.

I like the wet. I go well relative to my rivals, and I'm not scared of sliding the car or locking wheels too much. That 'confidence' (or over confidence ) seems to be worth a couple of seconds per lap!! I don't know what other drivers are like, but I find that I have spare mental capacity, even in horrible conditions with my eyes on stalks, to think about lines, laptimes, gaps, positions, handling. From conversations with other drivers, some of them have to concentrate 100% on not crashing. I'm not saying I'm 'special', but maybe I'm more suited to the wet than some.
The wet really shows up who can drive and who can drive fast, and you're obviously one of the latter!

Have you ever done Snet in the rain before? If so what's the "wet-line" like? I imagine through the chicane at the end of the back straight you'd have to stay on the normal dry racing line as that's the only real line through that corner, and maybe the same for the Bombhole and Russels? Although I could be completely wrong.
Quote from tristancliffe :I like the wet. I go well relative to my rivals, and I'm not scared of sliding the car or locking wheels too much. That 'confidence' (or over confidence ) seems to be worth a couple of seconds per lap!! I don't know what other drivers are like, but I find that I have spare mental capacity, even in horrible conditions with my eyes on stalks, to think about lines, laptimes, gaps, positions, handling. From conversations with other drivers, some of them have to concentrate 100% on not crashing. I'm not saying I'm 'special', but maybe I'm more suited to the wet than some.

I'm only at karting level, but I find that too. In the races I'm in now, if it's wet, before the race I'm thinking 'I know I will win'. Well obviously it's not 100% that I will, but it's extremely likely (and the confidence helps too). If it's dry, I'm thinking 'I'll try to win, but it'll be hard. A podium will be nice.'

Mabye it's LFS helping me with car control and making up for the lack of kart experience, or being smarter (I'm older than most of the other drivers) but I'm so much faster compared to everyone else in the wet! It is probably just that 'extra space' we have as less is taken up by 'Aaargh! Don't crash!'
Quote from Minimaxman :The wet really shows up who can drive and who can drive fast, and you're obviously one of the latter!

Flattering of you. Who knows! I've watching you race, and in the rain or the dry you are so much better in the corners. Sort your straight line speed and you'll win every race.
Quote from Minimaxman : Have you ever done Snet in the rain before? If so what's the "wet-line" like? I imagine through the chicane at the end of the back straight you'd have to stay on the normal dry racing line as that's the only real line through that corner, and maybe the same for the Bombhole and Russels? Although I could be completely wrong.

I have driven it in the wet. Riches benefit from missing the apexs, Sears tends to be the normal line. Into the esses (the left hander part) I found that turning in a lot earlier and getting the braking done in a straighter line works best. Others turn in later and slingshot round the outside. Bombhole benefits from slightly missing the apex, but not too much because the camber change will spit you out wide. Coram has a lot more grip out wide. Russells I never changed my line much - there isn't much room to!

Quote from Timdpr :I'm only at karting level, but I find that too. In the races I'm in now, if it's wet, before the race I'm thinking 'I know I will win'. Well obviously it's not 100% that I will, but it's extremely likely (and the confidence helps too). If it's dry, I'm thinking 'I'll try to win, but it'll be hard. A podium will be nice.'

Mabye it's LFS helping me with car control and making up for the lack of kart experience, or being smarter (I'm older than most of the other drivers) but I'm so much faster compared to everyone else in the wet! It is probably just that 'extra space' we have as less is taken up by 'Aaargh! Don't crash!'

LFS helps for certain! I'm so used to thinking whilst driving that I've found it helps in every aspect of real driving. My car control is better because I was able to experiment safely in LFS. I can learn tracks quickly because I've been able to experiment with various lines in various 'types' of corner in LFS. And because we're using to looking at split times and gaps in LFS I've got mental 'space' to be able to think about it. And I'm quite good, usually, at lapping people because LFS has taught me to be aware of the crazy stuff slower drivers/cars tend to do. Being calm helps to, and when I'm in the car I feel so 'at one' with it a lot of the time that I just drive, rather than TRYING to drive.

Not all the time of course. I'm still an amateur, and therefore at a lower level than 'decent' drivers further up the ladder, and I still make a higher percentage of silly mistakes than I would like (but I'm working on them as my experience grows), as Lap 1 shows at Silverstone.

I still fire up LFS for practice now and again, or to try different things out - racing line experimentation or setup theories.
This level of racing paired with LFS users gives me a warm feeling inside
Quote from tristancliffe :August 29th/30th

Will be there for the weekend working/drinking with our Britcars. How many cars we bring will be dependant on how many survive a 40 car/90 minute race round Castle Coombe on Sunday
Keep the video footage and updates coming, great to watch

Congratulations also on becoming champion!
Okay, was at Croft at the weekend - ooop north.

Wasn't the smoothest weekend ever, but I came away with two thirds, and a car mostly in one piece, so it can't have been that bad. Really, it should have been a third, a pole and a second, but alas "That's Motorsport".

Video 1 - One lap from practice. It doesn't end how I intended it to. The circuit it very difficult and bumpy.

Video 2 - A fairly dull race to be honest, apart from a small incident with someone nicknames "Dangerous Doug".

Video 3 - A slightly more interesting race. I get up to 2nd when Neil, in the yellow Dallara, misses a gear or two. But he doesn't give up, and ends up taking 2nd back from me in a slightly tasteless manner. Enjoy!!!

Next up - Another Snetterton race on October 17th/18th. I'm now out of the championship fight, so I can go there with no pressure, and just go as fast as I can. A decent result would set us up nicely for a championship challenge in 2010 (after a winter rebuild).

If you want to sponsor a championship winning (next year ) team/car/driver then get in touch!!!
Nice replays again, I'm jealous of you...

Isn't that yellow car, Neil, getting a penalty ? I mean, just bumping you off and not even making any sign of sorry (hands or waiting for you)...
Nope, no penalty. I was a bit slower on that lap as I wasn't sure if the backmarker had seen me, plus it's very bumpy on the inside line, and he locked up and hit me. His wing and nose were badly damaged, and I just had a few bent bits on my diffuser and a few broken driveshaft bolts.

He apologised immediately after the race, and even on the slowing down lap he waves a sorry at me. I was quite angry until he said sorry so quickly, at which point I became uncharacteristically philosophical about it all
:woohoo:

Great!!!
Oh well, he's done away with for now.

Anyway, something I've always wondered -- what exactly is it like in the cockpit of a single-seater? Race simulators give me a rough idea, but it isn't enough. I have no idea!

Oh, and sorry for not noticing this thread; absence when it was active.
How do you mean?

It's a tight fit - not a lot of room to wave your arms and legs about, but you get tailor the steering wheel and pedal positions to how you like them, and you make a custom seat that fits me 'exactly' (subject to change from eating too many pizzas before a race). I can't do my own belts up, and we tighten them to the point where it starts to hurt - which is very easy if I don't arrange myself [cough] before I get in. Once out on track the vibrations and g-forces settle you down in the car so the belts go from painful to being bloody tight but comfortable.

In terms of feel, it's like you are part of the car. You still move around with the g-forces a bit because a human body is a flexible squashy thing, but to all intents and purposes you are a part of the car. The instant the car does something you feel it. Whether or not you react quickly enough depends on your talent (or lack of - see Video 1 above!!).

It's a nice place to be. Arguably more comfortable than many road cars (tailored seat and reclined seating position).

The steering isn't that heavy - even accelerating through the corners you can drive one handed if you have to, and you try not to grip the wheel too hard because then you don't let the car move. The aim should be to let the car do as much of the work as possible...

The throttle is sensitive, but I use quite a long travel to aid sensitivity. This helps in the wet I'm sure! The brake pedal is like a rock in comparison to a road car. When we've bled it up you can't see it move, other than the initial freeplay in the mechanism. The clutch is about as heavy as a road car brake, so you have to heave on it a bit, but I only use it at the start - upshifts and downshifts are entirely clutchless, so the pedal just acts as a footrest most of the time.

Visibility is good - my car doesn't have modern high cockpit sides - even with a HANS device. The mirrors are convex, so I can see a lot behind me and to the sides. With a bit of a stretch I can just see my front wing endplates.

If that's what you meant, then great. If you meant something else, then I'll try again.

One day I want to get a decent driver in the car to see how it should be done, but until I can afford that I'll have to make do with me.
That's actually spot-on; just what I was wanting to know! It is a bit different than what I thought at first, then!
Quote from tristancliffe :I became uncharacteristically phylosophical

To the extent of generating the occasional errant "y". A common symptom of post incident stress amongst race drivers apparently - not to be confused with the usual "tires vs tyres" arguments between different nationalities of English-and-semi-English-speaking people.
I like the light aircraft landing round the back of the circuit in race 1. It's like one of those things they add to Ridge Racer. Anyway, seemed like a pretty eventful weekend but at least you didn't come away with any major damage.
Quote from xaotik :A common symptom of post incident stress amongst race drivers apparently

For sure.


Quote from tristancliffe :Okay, was at Croft at the weekend

So what'd you make of the track ?

I've heard it's one of the best in the country. Fast, challenging, and in places really scary.

Quote from tristancliffe :- ooop north.

It's grim up here yunno, don't you think ?.

Although it's quite pretty around Croft, Darlo and Richmond area.

(not sure you got the accent sussed though :tilt
Quote from Dalek0220 :That's actually spot-on; just what I was wanting to know! It is a bit different than what I thought at first, then!

What were you thinking it would be like - genuinely interested, because you might not be that far from the truth, and my account might not be well written!
Quote from Mazz4200 : So what'd you make of the track ?

I've heard it's one of the best in the country. Fast, challenging, and in places really scary.

Yup, it's the hardest track I've been to. Some very fast bits that you HAVE to be flat through, over kerbs and between stacks of tyres. Areas where you're trying to get the power down whilst turning and navigating the bumps. Off camber bits. Slippery bits. Bumpy braking zones. Bumpy apexes. Some hard braking, some less hard braking, some corners requiring absolute commitment (relatively anyway - I'm only an amateur), others requiring precision over brave pills...

It's also one of the more physical tracks, as the bumps and crests and cambers try to steal your concentration.

But it's satisfying when you get it right!!!! Not my favourite track, as it lacks the flow of some, but it's certainly one I'll look forward to going back to.


Quote from Mazz4200 :It's grim up here yunno, don't you think ?.

Although it's quite pretty around Croft, Darlo and Richmond area.

(not sure you got the accent sussed though :tilt

I'm not one for t'accents. Seemed like quite a pretty part of the world, but we didn't see much other than the track and the roads connecting it to the outside world (read: the A1).

Quote from xaotik :To the extent of generating the occasional errant "y". A common symptom of post incident stress amongst race drivers apparently - not to be confused with the usual "tires vs tyres" arguments between different nationalities of English-and-semi-English-speaking people.

Ah yes, that errant "y". I've had a word with him, and he's agreed not to do it again.

Cliffe crashes out of the lead
(324 posts, started )
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