Personnaly, i don't really care about real tracks or not. What would be interesting, IMHO, would be a free drive mode in a city or some 25 - 30 miles, exotic sinuous "one way" road.

I really like this game but i really don't care about doing a track one second faster or slower. I get bored running around in circle after a while. Being able to go everywhere is alway fun.

I know ill get bashed for this, but i think the city in NFSthe new version on xBox360) is fun to drive around.

Bear in mind i'm not comparing LFS to NFS. Far from it. I really like the road cars in LFS, i think it would be fun to drive them in street condition.

I guess it's a matter of personnal taste.

Quote from poirqc :

Personnaly, i don't really care about real tracks or not. What would be interesting, IMHO, would be a free drive mode in a city or some 25 - 30 miles, exotic sinuous "one way" road.

I really like this game but i really don't care about doing a track one second faster or slower. I get bored running around in circle after a while. Being able to go everywhere is alway fun.

I know ill get bashed for this, but i think the city in NFSthe new version on xBox360) is fun to drive around.

Bear in mind i'm not comparing LFS to NFS. Far from it. I really like the road cars in LFS, i think it would be fun to drive them in street condition.

I guess it's a matter of personnal taste.

I'd agree with this!

Even the NFS part, that city IS cool - no matter what the game is like, objectively, the city is well done and deserves credit. Think of the amount of work it would be to plan / create a detailed city like that! Very cool IMHO.

Racing from A to B is fun too I understand what you're saying. *cough* rallypack... *cough*

Quote from deggis :

That would be easy to do by the community. All we need is a huge car park.

I was reffering to Fifth gear, not Top gear..
But offcourse, i created a thread, for a bigger autocross/car park arena, to be in full S2.. We would have more freedom creating layuots, and we could replicate the Top gear track, which would be very cool, if done accuratelly.

I'm surprised how many people say that real tracks wouldn't add anything to the experience for them. I definately would enjoy racing on the real tracks that I have often watched races on on TV or visited live or even driven on.

To me it seems clear that if you sim race at a place that you know in real life this can only add to the immersion and motorsport atmosphere. I'm guessing but maybe you people who don't care about real tracks have more of a gaming/simming backround than a motorsport enthusiast backround? Maybe real tracks mean nothing to you because you can't relate to them in any way?

Another example would be flight sims. How much would people care about MSFS if you couldn't fly routes on a virtual earth to places that you can relate to from real life experiences? I reckon a lot less.

That said, there isn't really a solution to the quality problem. The LFS team is too small to spend time with certifying mods and I don't see them making enough money to pay for licenses to make them themselves. So I doubt we will see any changes soon especially since Scawen himself said quite a while ago that he wasn't really interested in real tracks.

Quote from J.B. :

I'm guessing but maybe you people who don't care about real tracks have more of a gaming/simming backround than a motorsport enthusiast backround? Maybe real tracks mean nothing to you because you can't relate to them in any way?

That seems fair. I love motorsport however I choose not to subscribe to cable TV and therefore don't have access to follow it much. Plus just don't have the time, the time I DO get goes into competing "virtually" lol
Maybe if I frequented RaceCity Speedway here in Calgary all the time (with a car I wish I had: SRT-4), then I could see having that track in LFS would add to immersion. BUT: Seriously here, maybe it's different in Europe, I don't know... How many people take their cars to well known tracks regularly??? How many people in the LFS kingdom (yes! kingdom!) actually participate IRL motorsport?

Quote :

Another example would be flight sims. How much would people care about MSFS if you couldn't fly routes on a virtual earth to places that you can relate to from real life experiences? I reckon a lot less.

Good point. That would be silly in MSFS wouldn't it. But then flight has much more of an exploratory function to it in terms of sightseeing! People pay money just to take a short flight to see things they can't see on the ground. Therefore that's much more applicable in MSFS (or XPLANE, whatever) since people don't go racing to sightsee. There's no "VFR" in racing!

I myself, would love to have real life tracks of course.. But my atitude is not like, "let's open the game, so we can all create tracks".. I know that these damn licence issues are preventing Eric to create some real tracks, because it is illegal, but i would also like, when it comes to that, that LFS is modable, that there is some system that valuate the tracks users created, and only one is sellected, like some competition. ALSO, i would like that, when someone makes a track, you have to send it to the devs, and they implement some code, that you can use online only that version, so there is no like thousands tracks, and you can't find anyone online. You see my point here?
Basically, only the best tracks would be selected, and allowed by devs, to be used in LFS(online) by implementing some security code, or whatever, so you can only use that version online... What you think of this?

Quote from Boris Lozac :

I myself, would love to have real life tracks of course.. But my atitude is not like, "let's open the game, so we can all create tracks".. I know that these damn licence issues are preventing Eric to create some real tracks, because it is illegal, but i would also like, when it comes to that, that LFS is modable, that there is some system that valuate the tracks users created, and only one is sellected, like some competition.

I'm essentially in agreement with you. Long term, it would be NICE to be able to race Brands Hatch etc in LFS. I can see how it could all quickly become too much downloadCandy. I don't have rFactor, so I haven't any experience with representative or fantasy tracks, but the screenshots posted here are toe-curling.

I would say, though that people shouldn't underestimate the technical abilities of those in the LFS community by suggesting that all efforts to reproduce tracks would result in ALL bad results. Everything I've learned of the community leads me to believe that, within our ranks are some people with extraordinary capabilities. There is everything here that would be needed, to create the perfect add-on track kit. LONG term, of course. I wouldn't ask for a radical change in direction before the end of S3. The business plan is fixed, and I've signed up for it to S2 so far, and will go S3 when that comes along.

My friends and I play UT occasionally, and some of the add-on maps are exceptionally good. There are some awful ones out there, but the best ones tend to float to the top where they receive the community's recognition. I presume the same can be said for the tracks in rFactor, and would be so in LFS.

With this in mind, why say NO to real tracks, if such a thing were possible? If you don't want to race real tracks, I can't imagine you'd be forced to do so. The option NOT to would always be present.

If someone were willing (and I just know they would) to obsess about reproducing an accurate representation of a real track, why prevent? First on my list would definitely be the Monaco GP track. Street circuit = no licence to pay, surely, and would be a good test of feasibility. LONG term, of course.

Quote from Don :

are you sure you want such bonuses?
http://img91.imageshack.us/img91/9988/charade212qq.jpg
http://forum.rscnet.org/attach ... d=342047&d=1136933280
http://forum.rscnet.org/attach ... d=341665&d=1136807546

Ha! What a great illustration of community mods gone bad. People, we don't want LFS to turn out like this. Even after S3 is released.
It's enough to make you sick, even before you start thinking about other problems community made tracks bring, like the dilution of server populations when hundreds of tracks become available.

Having said that, altough I know why and completely understand why it can't happen, I'd love to see quality real life tracks in LFS.

Anyone who says they wouldn't is of their rocker.

Quote from SamH :

If someone were willing (and I just know they would) to obsess about reproducing an accurate representation of a real track, why prevent? First on my list would definitely be the Monaco GP track. Street circuit = no licence to pay, surely, and would be a good test of feasibility. LONG term, of course.

Is that true?

Quote from J.B. :

I'm guessing but maybe you people who don't care about real tracks have more of a gaming/simming backround than a motorsport enthusiast backround? Maybe real tracks mean nothing to you because you can't relate to them in any way?

Lol.

Quote from Boris Lozac :

Maybe the Fifth gear crew could give the rights to use their test track for free, or some small amount of money.. I really love their test track, and it would be great for comparison with the show...

if you mean the circuit with radar corner etc and view of the sea
then here it is

http://angleseycircuit.com/circuit.htm

about 6 miles as crow flies from my house, due to be changing soon as being redeveloped and rather than just tacking a simple loop on for more length they're redoing it all to make the extra length be in charector with rest of circuit.

these guys are publicity hungry and would be one of the circuits most likely to allow their use in a game for free

p.s. its an excellent track for your road car and has a ridiculas amount of track days each year

Liscense fees are way out of reach for the devs. Big companys like codemasters and sony will fight over these things to have exclusive rights to that track. They spend crazy money on them.

I'm happy enough with what we got. You got to remember by S3 we will probaly have a whole new graphics engine etc. So would people really want to go through doing everything again ?? I for one wouldn't like to have to update all cars and tracks to work.

People need to remeber that there isn't really such a thing as 'track builder' software. All the tracks will be some sort of 3D mesh and will still be as complicated as making a car if not more depending on how the game works.

Keiran

Fees for the "famous" tracks are expensive but there are tracks that would give licences for free because they would like the publicity. It could also give LFS alot of publicity if these tracks ran simulators with "their" track on race days.
I cannot see any reason why it cannot be done. I'm not saying do it now but maybe for Xmas or S3

Quote from Gunn :

Lol.

Care to explain your amusement?

I think most of us in the world of sim racing have at least some interest in motorsport. I'm a big fan of most types, and yet I don't see a great deal of value in actually having real tracks. It might look more attractive to a new buyer, but in terms of racing quality and immersion what REAL difference does it make if your on a real track or a made up track? The racing will be just as good, if not better on a made up track, it's cheaper and less prone to inaccuracies.

I'm not a big fan of real tracks unless they are something different from the usual. How many games have silverstone etc. I think the TOCA series should be comended for producing tracks that we haven't seen before. For example the Austrailian touring car tracks are fantastic in Toca Race Driver. Also they put in KNOCKHILL! The only major race track in Scotland. I loved that because when I came back from racing at knockhill I put into practice all the lines I had been taught whilst there.

So yeah...it doesn't add much but it is cool if you can race on a circuit you've driven on. I'd rather they concentrated on making awesom original circuits that wouldn't get made in the real world.

Another pro for real tracks is racing drivers use games to test there before they get to the track for real.
Many Nascar drivers use Nascar 2003 to learn tracks before they race there.
My mate Ali who used to race legends used GTR in the morgan to practace Donington and more racing drivers means more publisity

real tracks or not it doesnt really make any difference to me. It is true that real tracks would be a good addition to lfs but it is not an essencial one, if personally find real tracks booring now, ive been siming since the f1 97 days on the psx and in every sim that came afterwards the tracks were the same.. it just got a bit booring, thats not to say i dont like them tho completely. Who can dislike Spa or Suzuka.. the insane elevations of Bathurst or the narrow and tight Monaco.. to me physics and the experience is whats important and thats what i get from lfs now... if i want eau rouge i play aston cadet reversed (chicane uphill kinda similar ) if i want monaco any South City track will do and if i want suzuka well ok that 1 is hard but guess kyoto has some nice layouts...

so u see i am satisfied...

mad

Quote from Don :

are you sure you want such bonuses?
http://img91.imageshack.us/img91/9988/charade212qq.jpg
http://forum.rscnet.org/attach ... d=342047&d=1136933280
http://forum.rscnet.org/attach ... d=341665&d=1136807546

Thanks... but no thanks!

I couldn't care less if a track (or car) exists irl, as long as it's quality work and fun to drive.

Quote from tristancliffe :

what REAL difference does it make if your on a real track or a made up track?

It's about selling LFS and it is also another way of getting publicity. What circuit is gonna have their track in a great game and not use that to their advantage?

Re: Street circuit = no licence to pay

Quote from mrfell :

Is that true?

I can't think how you can actually sue, or hold liable for monies, a person or entity that digitally emulates a section of roadway in a city (eg. the Monaco circuit). I'm trying to think of a scenario where it might be feasible, but I'm drawing a blank.

In copyright law, architects cannot sue photographers for photographing something placed visually in the public domain. Photographing a person is a different story.

Quote from nikimere :

It's about selling LFS and it is also another way of getting publicity. What circuit is gonna have their track in a great game and not use that to their advantage?

http://www.lfsforum.net/showthread.php?t=3742

Picture the scene where LFS includes Brands Hatch. Around Brands Hatch are advertising billboards. Around its representation in LFS are the same boards, with the same advertising. Wouldn't this just be the ideal combination of sponsorship and realism? An additional realism in LFS, and an extra selling point for Brands Hatch.. "not only does your ad get seen by everyone on race day, at the track and watching on TV, but also every day of the week in the superbly popular multiplayer racing simulation, Live For Speed.."

If I were the owners of Brands Hatch, I'd be falling over myself to get track data and billboard dimensions to the LFS Devs in the hope they'd include it in S3. Perhaps I'm stupid, but it seems to me like the perfect marriage.

Quote from SamH :

http://www.lfsforum.net/showthread.php?t=3742

Picture the scene where LFS includes Brands Hatch. Around Brands Hatch are advertising billboards. Around its representation in LFS are the same boards, with the same advertising. Wouldn't this just be the ideal combination of sponsorship and realism? An additional realism in LFS, and an extra selling point for Brands Hatch.. "not only does your ad get seen by everyone on race day, at the track and watching on TV, but also every day of the week in the superbly popular multiplayer racing simulation, Live For Speed.."

If I were the owners of Brands Hatch, I'd be falling over myself to get track data and billboard dimensions to the LFS Devs in the hope they'd include it in S3. Perhaps I'm stupid, but it seems to me like the perfect marriage.

I dont think you'd get Brands Hatch in LFS... Jonathan Palmer and co. would want alot of money for a licence for that track.

Quote from SamH :

Re: Street circuit = no licence to pay



I can't think how you can actually sue, or hold liable for monies, a person or entity that digitally emulates a section of roadway in a city (eg. the Monaco circuit). I'm trying to think of a scenario where it might be feasible, but I'm drawing a blank.

In copyright law, architects cannot sue photographers for photographing something placed visually in the public domain. Photographing a person is a different story.

"Cote d'Azure" circuit in Gran Turismo 3 was just that (Monaco street circuit). I suppose licenses for street courses can be worked around if you are prepared to name the circuit something else.

Quote from nikimere :

I dont think you'd get Brands Hatch in LFS... Jonathan Palmer and co. would want alot of money for a licence for that track.

Sadly, I think you're probably right. Not that it's a bad concept, but that history has shown a lack of investment on the part of the "club". I hope they sort it out. It's such a shame to see British motorsport suffocating under the weight of its belief in its own immortality.