Let me preface this by saying that I'm not here to name-and-shame anyone, nor am I venting at being crashed out of a race. Regardless of what happened here I know the other driver is competent. I'm asking a genuine question about whether my movements were appropriate or not. I think I have a firm grasp of respectful racing conduct and clean behavior, but on two separate occasions, someone has disagreed and said that I was in the wrong. I need to understand definitively whether my behavior was appropriate. I'm posting this in General Racing because it has to do with racing rules, not LFS specifically. If it's in the wrong place, mods feel free to move it.

Please keep this thread on-topic. If you haven't even looked at the replay and thus don't have a valid opinion, kindly refrain from replying.

The replay file is attached. Turning the relevant section into a youtube video is too time-consuming, so I'm not going to bother. Skip to 2:00, which is when I'm just finishing the first lap.

The situation:
Westhill, coming around to complete the final lap. I'm just ahead coming onto the pit straight, but the guy behind is closing. He feints left, so I move left a tiny bit. Turns out this was a trick, as he cuts back right and moves alongside on the right. T1 is a right-hander, so he has the inside. Once I see that he's on the inside, I hold my line on the right side of the track. We're both on the inside. The ideal line is on the far left in order to take T1 as wide as possible. However, the ideal line is not the required line. I continue to keep straight and hold my line, making sure that he has at least a car's width, as we get close to T1. He doesn't like being so far inside, so he moves left into my car, we make contact and I get punted off into the gravel.

The conclusion:
From my perspective, I did nothing wrong. On a straight I am required to leave a car's width, regardless of whether the other car has sufficient overlap. I did so. I am also entitled to choose my line, even if it may not be the 'normal' line. I did so. He, on other hand, specifically did not hold his line; instead of changed lines directly into my path and caused unnecessary contact which resulted in a crash.

I've watched the replay several times from different angles and I always come to the same conclusion.

Does anyone not agree with this? Please explain why. If I'm wrong I'll readily admit my mistake and change my driving accordingly in the future. I'm just trying to figure out what is right and proper so I don't keep making the same mistake.

You moaned about that on the server, and made such a large post here about it? Its a nothing incident, there was one very small touch, then you lost control and hit his car. The pass was done, nothing unfair at all, just a racing incident.

you will have to excuse me if this sounds biased but it is only my opinion.

From what i can see from the replay the driver passing you held his steering straight. wheras your car seemed to twitch slightly over to the right resulting in the first contact which bounces you off slightly, at which point you turn harder to the right and make secondary contact.

now as far as actual racing rules go. I have always seem it as the car with the significant overlap as being the one in control. Or in some occasions simply the car on the inside line for the next corner. Thats just how i have always looked at it. and what i believe to be true.

I personally think it's your own fault you spun. He took his line close to the curb and didnt have anymore space (at least not considerably) it is ur responsibility to let him have some space. You didn't leave any space and decided to keep it really really tight and ended up making contact and then spun. Not his fault at all as he didnt turn towards you on perpous. Racing incident.

Quote from franky500 :

From what i can see from the replay the driver passing you held his steering straight.

Really? When I go onboard with him, there are a couple moments where his wheel is definitely pointed left.

Quote from franky500 :

wheras your car seemed to twitch slightly over to the right resulting in the first contact which bounces you off slightly, at which point you turn harder to the right and make secondary contact

Correct. When the incident happened live though, I had no intention of ever turning right. I'm sure you're aware of LFS's strange collision physics and how two cars which barely touch seems to 'magnetize' sometimes. When we touched my car pulled to the right uncontrollably and I had to jerk left to correct it. I didn't realize until now that this aspect of the incident doesn't really show up in the replay.

So I guess I can only conclude that strict racing rules sometimes get muddied by LFS's imperfect simulation, which results in incidents where neither driver does anything wrong yet still something goes horribly wrong and a car crashes out. Still fun though.

Case closed, lock thread please.

Quote from evilpimp :

You didn't leave any space

Completely untrue.

I left him a car's width plus more, which is all that is required. Please explain how I am under any obligation to gift him as much space as he wants.

If this thread gets locked before you can reply, PM me. I'm interested in hearing your response.

Sorry, didn't phrase that properly. I meant you left enough space, yes, but it was your decision to keep it so close. When you go that close make sure you have enough space so that if he loses it even just a little you can still be able to get away from it.

But really its just a racing incident no ones fault imo.

You dont need to give him as much space as he wants, but if you dont want to end up having an accident you should leave a little more to make sure that you guys dont end up colliding like you did. I don't think you made a mistake but he sure as hell didn't either so it's just a simple racing incident imo.

I don't beleive racing rules are that strict. If you excersise plenty of common sense and respect for fellow racers we wouldn't even need rules.

But you have to outline every aspect in the rules because when someone messes up, they say " uh uhhhh, where is it in the rule book?"


Its the same reason there are laws about not having sex with sheep and tags on your hair dryer telling you not to use it in the shower.

Well Lateralus, the first thing i'll say is you shouldn't be trying to argue with the people who are posting their opinions where you asked for it....

As for your massive incident, you hold the right to stick in the middle of the track like you did, but you shouldn't do it if your not prepared for contact because it is quite a dangerous form of defending. What happend though, there was a slight touch, you were both holding your lines but moving slightly towards each other which caused the first tiny touch, once your recovered that you started turning into the corner, but it was to early, which then caused you to spin off.

I really don't see where there is question here, you were turning in when there was a car on the inside of you, nothing else to add really?

Quote from Bawbag :

Well Lateralus, the first thing i'll say is you shouldn't be trying to argue with the people who are posting their opinions where you asked for it....

I didn't argue with his opinion, I pointed out where he was factually wrong. Which he stated in his second post. No problems here.

Quote from Bawbag :

you hold the right to stick in the middle of the track like you did, but you shouldn't do it if your not prepared for contact because it is quite a dangerous form of defending

This is really the crux of the argument, and is quite a good of way putting it I might add. Thanks for that.

Racing incident. Let's move on.

thread closed at Ops request