I have tried on real tracks cars above 250-300hp, and they are A LOT more easy to drive than some 140cv rear wheel drive lfs cars.
And it's all about grip.

I would like to understand how physics works on this game, because I want to race really seriously, but DAMN, this game is making me change my way of driving.
For example I have found the GTI (and almost all the front wheel drive cars) very realistic, but an XRT seems to have 250 or 300hp by looking at the way it slides in 1 or 2 gear, according to the way I push the throttle.
I have noticed this things only at low speeds, when it's supposed to be more stable. Sliding when I'm at 30 Km/h (feet on air) on a race car it's only possible in my mind on an ice track (and not coming from 200Km/h, of course).
And there are a lot of more examples.
A real BMW M3 doesn't spin "donut style" when you are only in 50% throttle in first gear, if you don't turn the wheel.
Well, it's too long to explain, but I think people understands me.

The game is fantastic, that is why purchased it, but I think some lfs cars has less grip than real and more powered cars, specially at low speeds.

I think that the more realistic a game is, the less you have to "re-adapt" your way of driving.

Well, that's all. I will continue "re-adapting" my way of driving, but keep the good work, as you all LFS crew do

P.D: (I have WR setups, the best DFP settings, and a lot of more settings properly configured)

call me n00b if you want, guys (but only in LFS

The low-speed grip problems are well known, and the tyre model will be improved. It's just not complete yet. Hopefully things will become easier (more realistic) in the future

Brian,

you'll get as many opinions as replies to this one

I agree LFS is 'unrealistic'.. The promis it holds is great however. And after long hard work you can actually make the cars hard to oversteer.

Try the attatched setups, though they only are for RWD road cars. It is hard to say what is wrong exactly. It seems like the tyres don't have a transition from grip buildup, stick, grip loss.. you seem to go from grip loss to grip loss as if the tyre barely has a preference of not slipping / sliding.

It has been discussed at high and low quality levels of conversation.. We will have to see what the physics updates before S2 goes final do to the handling. Meanwhile try these setups. I'm now working on a new pack which provides more of a challenging / rewarding drive than these ones that where there basically to make it nearly as hard as possible for LFS to oversteer out of control..

N

Quote from NotAnIllusion :

The low-speed grip problems are well known, and the tyre model will be improved. It's just not complete yet. Hopefully things will become easier (more realistic) in the future

Oh, it's well known... thanks for the info.
As I said, I am starting in this world (sim racing), and I am always reading the forum, improving my hardware and software settings.
Maybe some of my questions are well known too, but that's the way I learn

Quote from Niels Heusinkveld :

Brian,

you'll get as many opinions as replies to this one

I agree LFS is 'unrealistic'.. The promis it holds is great however. And after long hard work you can actually make the cars hard to oversteer.

Try the attatched setups, though they only are for RWD road cars. It is hard to say what is wrong exactly. It seems like the tyres don't have a transition from grip buildup, stick, grip loss.. you seem to go from grip loss to grip loss as if the tyre barely has a preference of not slipping / sliding.

It has been discussed at high and low quality levels of conversation.. We will have to see what the physics updates before S2 goes final do to the handling. Meanwhile try these setups. I'm now working on a new pack which provides more of a challenging / rewarding drive than these ones that where there basically to make it nearly as hard as possible for LFS to oversteer out of control..

N

Thanks for the setup, I will try.

I really like this game, and the way it's going to.

Welcome to LFS, the great vortex of you're life's time.... you're already in the gravitational field, kiss your other hobbies goodbye....

Quote from Ball Bearing Turbo :

Welcome to LFS, the great vortex of you're life's time.... you're already in the gravitational field, kiss your other hobbies goodbye....

that's the f****** true! My girlfriend agrees with you too! (but she's not happy) LOL

I think you're used to racing cars in other games that have slicks. You cant compare that to road tires on road cars. Try the slickmod and fit some slicks on the road cars and you'll see that it's all in the tires.

Quote from joeynuggetz :

I think you're used to racing cars in other games that have slicks. You cant compare that to road tires on road cars. Try the slickmod and fit some slicks on the road cars and you'll see that it's all in the tires.

It's not a question of slicks, it's a question of reality.
Even with my girlfriend's seat ibiza I get more grip at low speeds than with the lfs GTI. And my Opel Astra Coupe seems to have glue on his tyres, if I compare it to some lfs cars (only in some situations, of course, the ones we were talking about)
I have to tell you that this is the first time I really show interest in a racing game (sim racing world), because I know this is (and will be) "The game"
What is the "slickmod"? (noob, remember)

sense of speed is one of the problems that causes this 'low grip' feel. Was doing a corner on fe gold rev the other day that felt terribly slow, but when I thought about a similar corner I'd done on a track 'in real life', I was going about 20kms an hour faster in the rb4, than my rx7. Real life doesn't feel slow, but the game does at times Obviously that's hardly a scientific measure, but I'd be pretty confident the problem is not with outright grip levels, but with the way the grip 'feels' when you push the limit. There is also the issue of putting power down while cornering, which definately has a way to go...

You can find the slickmod on this page. It works with the latest patch (.05q)

Well I have to say that after decreasing the sensibility of the pedals from 50% to 25% in the logitech profiler I have increased my stability in all rear wheel drive cars. Now the pedals feel much more "expanded", less concentrated. Hard when I push full throttle, soft when I only "touch" the pedal. So there's a long way for me to set up EVERYTHING

Quote from BrainBT :

Well I have to say that after decreasing the sensibility of the pedals from 50% to 25% in the logitech profiler I have increased my stability in all rear wheel drive cars. Now the pedals feel much more "expanded", less concentrated. Hard when I push full throttle, soft when I only "touch" the pedal. So there's a long way for me to set up EVERYTHING

Indeed setting things up to accomodate your style and taste is a big part of things. Also like blowtus said until you've played for awhile it's hard to really feel the sense of speed, but once you're used to it I personally think LFS is unsurpassed in this area. The feeling of being connected to the car, and the car in turn being connected to the road (most of the time ) is phenomenal. Glancing at the speedo ever so often helps one to appreciate the real "speed", and the G meter at the bottom (with the F9 screen on) tells a lot too.

It's hard one you've been driving one of the big 3 GTRs, when going back to the road cars, for the first few laps I invariably feel like I am on a skating rink. But after a few laps it starts to feel like I'm really moving again.

But more important, when you race the fast cars for a while and then go back to the oldskool ones, you'll be totally flattened how hard it is to make them step out. The first time I drove the XRT after a looong time of XRR carnage I thought it's glued on rails.

Quote from AndroidXP :

But more important, when you race the fast cars for a while and then go back to the oldskool ones, you'll be totally flattened how hard it is to make them step out. The first time I drove the XRT after a looong time of XRR carnage I thought it's glued on rails.

So true. When the S2 demo was released, I don't think I ever made a complete lap in the XR Turbo. I of course jumped right into the FZR when S2 Licensed was released and now occationally jump back to the demo servers. The XRT is such a wimp of a car now compared to back then when I "couldn't" drive it.

Really?!?! I find the opposite... After trying FE Gold Rev in an FXR for ages a couple days ago (PS That track is a nitemare if you've never raced on it before... The REVs are still foreign to me mostly) I went to FE Green REV in a normal FX0, and the thing was all over the damn place for a few laps. I couldn't make turns without consequences for a little while.

Drive some proper RWD cars then.

Quote from Bob Smith :

Drive some proper RWD cars then.

Once the physics cooperate properly I plan to!

:hide:

It's just an excuse I know



Actually I used to drive them exclusively, so I switched for a bit. Plus I can relate them to my car IRL better so that's cool.

I don't know what all the fuss is about. If I could get into a real Formula Renault, throw it around all over the place and catch any slides without a worry, or semi-drift an MRT5 around an autocross layout, I think I'd be most impressed with myself!

Quote from BrainBT :

My girlfriend agrees with you too! (but she's not happy) LOL

he he I know this problem too. Unfortunatly you can't fix it by setup

http://www.performancesimulations.com/files

Right click and 'save as' ToddSim13a.wmv.

Forgive the horrendous graphics, but I've got to say the lack of g-forces in LFS is probably not at all to blame for what the OP is talking about. This vid is from my sim with a 3500 lb car and 350 HP running on tires that, get this, only pull about 0.93-0.95g on the skidpad. That's about 15-20% less grip than the LFS street tires, isn't it? And there's no downforce here at all to help things out. None.

55% of the weight is on the front tires and it's got a rather stiff differential too. The throttle is shown there so you can see where there's lots of full throttle corner exits at low speed and all that's needed is a little steering correction to keep it under wraps. I drove around for about four or five hours one night with this car or variations of it and don't recall ever accidentally spinning out when just trying to put in some aggressive, fast laps. With 500HP the car is still quite controllable on those tires. On slicks it's almost boringly easy to drive until you drop the weight to 2500lb or so. And of course there's no less g-force feel on this ugly thing than anything else I've driven on a PC :P

Methinks the difference in sims is in the tire modelling Fortunately Scawen is a sharp cookie and will undoubtedly improve this over time. I personally think the multiplayer is the best out there, although at the moment GTL gets most of my play time (aside from my own ugly sim, which gets a bit more, but I may be a bit biased )

Quote from jtw62074 :

http://www.performancesimulations.com/files

Right click and 'save as' ToddSim13a.wmv.

Forgive the horrendous graphics, but I've got to say the lack of g-forces in LFS is probably not at all to blame for what the OP is talking about. This vid is from my sim with a 3500 lb car and 350 HP running on tires that, get this, only pull about 0.93-0.95g on the skidpad. That's about 15-20% less grip than the LFS street tires, isn't it? And there's no downforce here at all to help things out. None.

You'll have to take into account that that road is as smooth as a babys bottom. No bumps in sight. That might account for a bit of the extra grip.

I'm not saying LFS has it right, because it doesn't. Just pointing out a detail.

bumps are very important.. The tyre model is about as important as the bumps model I'd say. Sine wave bumps like GTR are horrible. RFactor seems to do them a bit better but I'd say its time for a new approach to bumps.. Iracing is now laserscanning tracks or something with all bumps taken into account.. If you can put this in a sim somehow..

Todds tyres almost look too easy but once there are bumps it might be a bit harder.

Sims haven't really moved in the 21st century yet :/

I'm pretty sure 'real life' g's are always higher than skidpad tests...