Quote from Bean0 :

By the way of thinking that has Gold and above drivers banned from Race1, surely the same applies to us Titanium and the Platinum licenced drivers being banned from Race 2.

You see the problem now...


Edit: Higher licensed drivers are not going on the lower servers for easy points as you might think. I could win races all day on Race 1 and still get less than 20 points in total.

The same would not apply to Ti and above because there are not yet enough higher licence holders to go around.The problem is trying to populate race 2 .

I don't think higher licence holders are there to get points , just for more populated servers

Quote from Bean0 :

By the way of thinking that has Gold and above drivers banned from Race1, surely the same applies to us Titanium and the Platinum licenced drivers being banned from Race 2.

You see the problem now...

Not really tbh, race 1 is the entry level server, after that you heve been 'promoted' to the higher divisions as a reward.

I totally understand the principle of heading to race 1 for some competition if the other servers are quiet, but personally it's not for me. I'd rather try and populate the higher servers

Same thought process for the single seaters too, imo

This isn't the first time this tppic/suggestion has reared it's head. Whats the party line from the CTRA admin?

I think the main point is still not realized.

TBO's aren't used because we are sick of getting beaten by LRF's.
You still can say bla, bla it's different class, but overall win is what counts.

maybe there are people out there that aren't just racing for beatiful statistics.

just a guess...

Quote from N I K I :

I think the main point is still not realized.

TBO's aren't used because we are sick of getting beaten by LRF's.
You still can say bla, bla it's different class, but overall win is what counts.

Which win?
You get a CTRA win if you win TBO class (provided there were enough cars) even if you are one lap and several places down LRFs, so you must be referring to LFSW wins stats?

I try to join Race2 even if it is empty, but after 2 "races" alone I quit...
And when there are 4-5 LX6s on the server, you can always ask around to get a few into TBOs.

Race1 is fun, I like the lower powered cars and close races with varied skills (sometimes frustrating).
I also remember when I started CTRA race1 I was happy to find fast guys on the server to learn from them (Biohazard for example was pretty active then) - newbies only server would be hell and no improvement chances.

Quote from N I K I :

I think the main point is still not realized.

TBO's aren't used because we are sick of getting beaten by LRF's.
You still can say bla, bla it's different class, but overall win is what counts.

Tut tut, surely it's the fun of taking part that counts.

Quote from N I K I :

I think the main point is still not realized.

TBO's aren't used because we are sick of getting beaten by LRF's.
You still can say bla, bla it's different class, but overall win is what counts.

Your right I see this all the time! It's too bad really. There will be an almost full server of people racing GT2's and there will always be one person who goes GT1.
Where is the fun of racing by yourself on a server full of people?
I would rather race mid pack and have a blast than win and not have anyone challege me at all. BORING!!!!!!!!!!

Quote from Toddshooter :

Your right I see this all the time! It's too bad really. There will be an almost full server of people racing GT2's and there will always be one person who goes GT1.
Where is the fun of racing by yourself on a server full of people?
I would rather race mid pack and have a blast than win and not have anyone challege me at all. BORING!!!!!!!!!!

I believe you're referring to me

Purely a points thing, I get bugger all driving anything bar GTRs.
I need the praccy in FZR for IGTC and suchlike anyways.

Edit: It also generally gets a few more racing in the GTRs, just like people are mentioning above.

i could care less about getting beaten by the LRFs, and I really can't see why anyone would care. As long as there are enough people to have some good racing in the TBOs.
Personally, until recently, I just never liked driving the TBOs, but fortunately they're starting to grow on me.

Quote from Bean0 :

I believe you're referring to me

Purely a points thing, I get bugger all driving anything bar GTRs.
I need the praccy in FZR for IGTC and suchlike anyways.

Edit: It also generally gets a few more racing in the GTRs, just like people are mentioning above.

Actualy I wasn't talking about you I had another person in mind, but your cover is blown now you points whore!!

Quote from N I K I :

I think the main point is still not realized.

TBO's aren't used because we are sick of getting beaten by LRF's.
You still can say bla, bla it's different class, but overall win is what counts.

I think the majority of the people have no problem at all with Race2 being multi class with TBO's and LRF's. Like was said before, not everyone races for mere statistics.

On the other hand, though, the fact that Race2 is multi class means it needs more people on it to offer good racing in both classes. For example, if there's 8 people on - I think that would qualify as "well populated" considering it's usally deserted - there will probably be a number of people racing the LRF's and a number racing the TBO's. So if you take 50/50 you're only racing with 4 people in each class, which usually isn't enough to offer good racing, depending on how well matched the drivers are. If all 8 would be racing the same class it would be a lot different.

About preventing higher licensed drivers from joining Race 1, I think that was brought up quite a while ago already. The problem is that it would be seen as a sort of "punishment" for reaching a higher license, and that just doesn't make sense. Aside from the fact that the higher licensed servers usually don't have a lot of people on them, one of the main reasons for higher licensed drivers joining Race1 is because they like to race the STD cars. Taking that away from them just because they've reached Gold wouldn't really be fair, would it? And I don't even know if it would help populate Race2 that much.

Quote from obsolum :

one of the main reasons for higher licensed drivers joining Race1 is because they like to race the STD cars

If the STD class is so great then maybe Race 2 should be changed to use it. Throw away the unpopular TBO and LRF.

What about the fairness to the lower license holders? If the first 9 positions in a race on Race 1 go to people with Titanium/Platinum/Gold/Silver the Copper/Bronze drivers CAN'T get any points. Is that fair?

Is it fair to expect new Copper drivers to have to beat Titanium/Platinum/Gold/Silver drivers to earn points?
Yes the higher license holders can be a valuable source if information, setups and race craft. But they are stealing the points from the lower licensed people.

I think Gold and above people should be prevented from racing on Race 1.

If you beat Copper drivers with ease you have earned Bronze.
If you beat Bronze drivers with ease you have earned Silver.
If you beat Silver drivers with ease you have earned Gold.
If you beat Gold drivers with ease you have earned Platinum.
If you beat Platinum drivers with ease you have earned Titanium.

That's how I see the CTRA. And why I don't consider myself true Platinum

Don't get me wrong, I am for preventing Gold+ from racing on Race1. But I doubt CTRA would implement it because there would be a lot of protest.

And yes, it's not fair that the higher licensed guys are "stealing" the points on Race1. In fact, back when I was Bronze I was one of the guys complaining about this (a lot) and saying that Silver+ shouldn't be able to race on Race1 That's not really the case, however. I still race a lot on Race1 (yes, I'm guilty, too) but I seldom win a race. If I'm lucky I'll end up within the top 3, but usually I'm somewhere in the top 6 or 7 (on a server with 20+ drivers). There's some amazingly fast Copper & Bronze drivers on there. Of course, they'll be Silver or Gold in no time.

I have also uttered the suggestion a couple of times - on the server itself - that CTRA should introduce a STD server for Silver+ only, so they can have close STD racing but without Coppers/Bronzes ruining the race for some (I find this still happens regularly, especially during peak hours the quality of racing on Race1 takes a very deep dive). I don't think this is a realistic idea, though. Chances are it would be as empty as Race2 is now Plus there's no point in having two identical servers (as far as car classes are concerned) seeing as we're already having trouble populating the ones we have.

So, all in all, I say "ban" Gold+ from Race1, maybe with a message saying "Please join Race2" or something I find the TBO class can offer very good and close racing, but you have to take the time to familiarize yourself a bit with the cars and get a few good setups for different tracks. And therein lies a part of the problem too, I think. Everyone knows the STD cars and has a number of sets for them that have been tweaked to their liking, so they can just jump onto the server and join the fun. I can understand that the fact that someone would have to "learn" the car and find or create a good set, sets them off the idea of joining Race2. I'm still mastering the TBO myself, btw.

Oh well, maybe I am stats whore, but not that much. I mean if I win a race, no matter is that class racing or not, that should be win in LFSW, :P.

But there is one more reason for making CTRA in TBO only.
There would be more drivers doing TBO. Those who drive LRF would do TBO again, and some old blocks would be back too. LRF would be dead again, but what's the shame in that? It never got live as it should...
TBO rulz.

Making Race2 TBO only again wouldn't change anything. It was TBO only for a long time before, remember?

Quote from Bean0 :

Edit: It also generally gets a few more racing in the GTRs

Exactly why i do it.

I will try for a couple of races in the GT1 just to hopefully encourage someone else to drive em.

Hello to all !
I totally agree with NIKI !
I already posted in a similar thraed, dont remember which one, but i have the feeling than people dont understand why we need a TBO server and only TBO. Why the server TBO was empty after patch X? JUST BECAUSE WHEN YOU DRIVE TBO YOU DONT GET AS POINTS AS LRF. I think there is a problem with the point system, for example if you have a good license you win no points on CTRA1 Why? You finish first and you win how much? ONE POINT
!!! OR maybe 2 if you do the track record, AWESOME ! It s the same on TBO server, if you have a too good license you win no points,that s it. And by the wa, i remember in the patch X, i already won more than 400 points on a TBO race. Now you win no points you cant catch the leader ranking who have played a lot on patch X, thats impossible and its decrease the spirit competition i think. In my OPINION, and maybe it will hard to heard but, the CTRA ranking must be restartes based on a new point system.

And , just an another thing, i dont know if TBO car win the same points, but i think XRT have to win more points like the patch X, and same for RB4 as well or something like that.

Have a nice day,
Regards,

Quote from Worm :

Why the server TBO was empty after patch X? JUST BECAUSE WHEN YOU DRIVE TBO YOU DONT GET AS POINTS AS LRF.

You seem to be forgetting that for a pretty long time after patch X came out, Race2 was only TBO's. LRF's weren't included on any CTRA server. And still Race2 was hardly ever well populated. So your argument is doesn't stand.

Ok, now after 2 days and 43 posts of discussion when we all read other ppl's thoughts and gave ours, I can say that we're still where we were at the beginning.
Most of you're supporting LRF, even do you're not actually using it.
Most of you're still doesn't get it that best pick up racing that LFS can provide comes in TBO class.
Most of you're going to some stupid radical solution like banning higher licences from CTRA Race 1.

So developers of CTRA system doesn't join into this argument, witch is also bad sign.

Maybe lock the thread. kthxbye

Quote from N I K I :

Ok, now after 2 days and 43 posts of discussion when we all read other ppl's thoughts and gave ours, I can say that we're still where we were at the beginning.
Most of you're supporting LRF, even do you're not actually using it.
Most of you're still doesn't get it that best pick up racing that LFS can provide comes in TBO class.
Most of you're going to some stupid radical solution like banning higher licences from CTRA Race 1.

So developers of CTRA system doesn't join into this argument, witch is also bad sign.

Maybe lock the thread. kthxbye

NIKI,

I think there are many opinions here and maybe you are not reading or understand what others see.

I look at this entire thread and I can only say one thing.... again.

CTRA PROVIDE a race server that people CAN go and race TBO's on them.... but those drivers DO NOT use it.

If TBO is the best form of pickup racing - why are people not racing it? Well either becuase

1. it is not as great as you think it is?
2. There are other options that people would prefer to do?
3. People would prefer to race in a full field in Race 1.
4. something else I can not think of

Whether it is because the LRF's are there or not is by the by.... the TBO server is there and people do NOT drive there.

I could speak to the other Admins about tweeking the server for a week but I'm not sure what it would do?

You could make the Race 2 server TBO only for a week and/or ban Gold and above from Race 1 for a week and see what happens..... if it doesn't get people interested in the TBO racing then I think its best to give up on the idea.

Let me go check it may or may nort be possible to do something.

Regards,


Dru.

Just because they're *your* favorite doesn't necessarily mean TBOs are the *best* class for pickup racing. Personally, I don't much care to race any one class all of the time. You could also make a case for the UFbR being the most fun for pickup racing.
Point is, if everyone felt the same way you do, we wouldn't be having this discussion. Repeating it over and over isn't going to change anyone's mind.

Quote from JohnnyFX :

Just because they're *your* favorite doesn't necessarily mean TBOs are the *best* class for pickup racing. Personally, I don't much care to race any one class all of the time. You could also make a case for the UFbR being the most fun for pickup racing.
Point is, if everyone felt the same way you do, we wouldn't be having this discussion. Repeating it over and over isn't going to change anyone's mind.

you sure about that

Just set teh damn server to TBO mmmk

Whilst I like the concept of multi-class racing, especially to provide a home for a class that would otherwise see no action at all, I do think that if the server is not seeing much use then something is wrong.

The CTRA under the STCC guise managed to maintain between 2 and 4 full servers, the peak being in the build up to X with the split patch. Since the X patch launch settled down it has consistently managed to fill 2. That tells me something is less than perfect. Whilst the system is clearly still sucessful and is still making new landmarks, I do think alterations might be worth considering to populate race 2 again.

There is no place for LRF class cars outside of league racing, UKCT, myself and CTRA have all in the past tried to push the LRF class in response to a perceived popular demand, but always to no avail. I feel for the CTRA here because they are damned if they do and damned if they dont, but I personally feel that the best thing to do is remove the LRF from the servers.

LRF's are not popular pickup racing cars and they've no place being the dominant class on a public server for pickup racing. People dont race them, so get rid of them.

The TBO's are very much an underdog car, nobody really spares them much though until they see them in action or join some busy races - then everyone remembers how fantastic they are. It's for that reason some people believe them to be the best pickup racing cars in LFS. Well they might be right, they certainly have some merits, although of course they dont appeal to everyone.

Whilst TBO's are playing second fiddle to LRF's however they have no opportunity to flourish as they used too.

Bring back multi-class racing if the servers are popular enough to justify it, otherwise it's just spreading the user base even thinner on servers that currently are not appealing to their targer audience.

That's my view, but i'm not involved any more, and neither am I actively racing.

Very nice post Becky.
I agree in every single word, I tried to explain but never quite got it. I posted 9 posts trying to explain what you managed in one.