Ok, I'm not trying to start a debate here on which is better, but do any of the LFS faithful have any experience with Forza on the XBOX? I'm a long time LFS player and absolutely love the game, but I've been itching for some real tracks and more realistic graphics. Forza also appears to have a pretty coordinated online mode that pairs you up with drivers of similar skill-level. I'm sure the physics will not be up to LFS, but I can live with that as long as its reasonable.

Again, I'm not asking which one is better but wondering if Forza might be a good diversion from LFS. Any comments?
Dave

do you play lfs with a keyboard or wheel? do you think realism=fun

or that that some type of compromise between realism and "fun" must be considered when making a game?

The thing what pisses me off is that they call Forza (and GT4) a sim (which is bullshit). All the 100 000 000 console fan boys who play Forza/GT4 think it's the ultimate simulation just because the marketing man invented a good slogan. I've never got convinced a single fan boy that Forza/GT4 is just a semi-sim/arcade.

I race with a wheel and pedals. I think thats the only way to go with racing games.

As far as being a sim. I completely agree that LFS is about as good as anyone as simluated so far. I actually race in SCCA offline, so I know a thing or too about realistic driving. However, sometimes the pure fun and entertainment value isn't always there in a hardcore sim. So from time to time I like to pick up a more entertaining game as a diversion. For example, one of my favorite driving games on the PC was actually Need for Speed: Porsche Unleashed. It wasn't necessarily the most realistic "sim," but all of the cars handled predictably and the AI was pretty fun to race against.

On that note, poor AI was actually one of the reasons I stopped playing GT3. I actually found the cars fairly fun to drive, but the AI was just ridiculous. Thats one reason I'm thinking Forza with online support might be interesting....

i dont understand why u guys show so much hatred towards gt4... i'm dissapointed but other simmers sound angry. GT4 is much more realistic than 3 but still i was dissapointed after playing lfs for so long. 5 should be much more realistic. 5th time around on the much more powerfull ps3, the physics sould be more solid... the question is will fear of scaring away the mainstream gt fans make them hold back on physics (again?)

Quote from Gabkicks :

i dont understand why u guys show so much hatred towards gt4... i'm dissapointed but other simmers sound angry. GT4 is much more realistic than 3 but still i was dissapointed after playing lfs for so long. 5 should be much more realistic. 5th time around on the much more powerfull ps3, the physics sould be more solid... the question is will fear of scaring away the mainstream gt fans make them hold back on physics (again?)

Yes it will. Mainstream + simulation = impossible.

I got Forza, good game, nothing wrong with it even though its not a sim. Some times you just want to blast around on a arcade game

Quote from deggis :

I've never got convinced a single fan boy that Forza/GT4 is just a semi-sim/arcade.

Well, you have an ex GT4 fanboy right here, and he's turned over to the light side :lfs:

I have Forza and enjoy it quite a bit, sure it's not LFS, but it's not bad. The cars handle in a predictible manner, and actually seem to interact properly with the ground, which can't be said for a lot of driving games. I'd hardly call myself a fanboy, but I think it's quite fun and entertaining, and well worth the purchase price.

Forza/GT4 are marginly less arcade than TRD/CMR. These games are totally unchallenging and unengaging when compared to LFS/N2003/GPL/NK

I like arcade fun racer, like NFS HP2, UG1 or Midnight Club 2. I'm also playing with a gamepad and I'm not going to use a wheel. But in LFS almost all cars are still play- and enjoyable for me compared to GPL or Nascar 2003. However I can't compete with the elite drivers in both worlds.

Forza is a lot more challenging than GT4 though. I own GT4, and regret it, such a boring game just to collect cars, tracks, and credits. It's not focused on the driving so much as other games. Forza is pretty challenging, just played it some more last weekend at a friend's house, and it is quite good, but I was using the gamepad, would have loved to try it with the wheel. GT4 is so ridiculously easy to learn, I still think that game will NEVER be any harder, just a typical pain in the ass to get to 100%... with nothing rewarding at all. I was never really worried about cars I won in Forza, just the driving was the most important part. I was never sure if I'd win or not, because the AI was pretty tough and make for some good races. GT4, I know I'll win each race, it is just a screw around game.

True simulators are still on the PC, not on console. NOTHING will EVER feel realistic on a console, their target audience is kids! There is no doubt in my mind that these console driving games are made easier for the unskilled. My friends who absolutely hate driving games have me do all the work for them to win races. People get bored very quickly, or frustrated even faster that they cannot win if a game is too hard for them. My friends can at least beat the races in GT4, but Forza, with its medium-skilled races, it is very hard for them to like it. Imagine what a real simulation would do.... :zombie:

Quote from Akuma66 :

I got Forza, good game, nothing wrong with it even though its not a sim. Some times you just want to blast around on a arcade game

i agree.

i played the demo, and for a console simulation/racer i would say its about the best you can get.

it was suitably difficult with the standard controller, but im sure it will be more immersive with the wheel. just make sure and turn all the aids off. i couldnt brake right with the xbox controller!

I have Forza Motorsport and enjoyed it quite a bit, considering the fact that it's played with a controller most of the time.

It needs to be realized that there are two sides to the whole simulation marketing campaign both Forza Motorsport and GT4 had. While they don't even come near the sophisticated engine we see in Live For Speed, the parts, customization and number of vehicles do simulate another part of a racing experience. I think both games are doing a very good job in this latter part.

Nonetheless, Forza Motorsport is good and a lot of fun, if you just accept it for what it is. Can't be compared to LFS, in my opinion.

Mahlzeit.....

I own Forza as well as GT4 and talking about fun and realism.....Forza wins hands down.....the driving is by far more challenging and even though the visual quality might not quite match the bling bling of GT4 the immersion is still better.....I think its the best you can get on a console at the moment.....

So my answer to the topic-starter.....Yes.....Forza IS a good diversion for LFS

But it will be the same as with any other game, still.....you will come back to LFS

CU, Sebastian

I love lobster and fresh asparagus, but sometimes I get a craving for a big mac, you know what I'm saying?
Forza on my brothers 42" plasma with surround sound is a great romp once you get used to controlling the car with buttons.
It looks great but tonight I'd rather be racing UF's online round South City with a good bunch of guys who like to race hard but realise it's still a game.

Thanks for all of the responses. Exactly what I was looking for. Forza is definitely not a replacement for LFS, but sounds like it would be a quality diversion to mix things up a bit. I think I'll have to give it a shot.
Dave

Quote from Tweaker :

Forza is a lot more challenging than GT4 though. I own GT4, and regret it, such a boring game just to collect cars, tracks, and credits. It's not focused on the driving so much as other games. Forza is pretty challenging, just played it some more last weekend at a friend's house, and it is quite good, but I was using the gamepad, would have loved to try it with the wheel. GT4 is so ridiculously easy to learn, I still think that game will NEVER be any harder, just a typical pain in the ass to get to 100%... with nothing rewarding at all. I was never really worried about cars I won in Forza, just the driving was the most important part. I was never sure if I'd win or not, because the AI was pretty tough and make for some good races. GT4, I know I'll win each race, it is just a screw around game.

I have a great Time in GT4 getting all the licenses and "missions" to gold... no car collecting, just pure driving and it might not be a sim, but quite enjoyable non the less

Have no Xbox though, so no advise about forza

In my humble opinion, GT4 is the best arcade car game out there. Both of those titles (GT4&Forza) suck major arse with gamepads though. If someone says that any one of these games are realistic, needs a swift kick in the arse and a slap in the face.

Quote from Matrixi :

If someone says that any one of these games are realistic, needs a swift kick in the arse and a slap in the face.

There are plenty of them... you would just break your leg when kicking all those fanboys.

As I said in the first post in this thread that it really pisses me off that both Forza and GT4 are marketed as simulations. That's why most the console boys think those are as realistic as driving games can get... pretty sad actually.

I have Forza, have had since launch.

As you can see from my avatar I'm pretty "into" it. Main reason is that I haven't had the money to go PC racing for quite some time so the xbox was my only release.

Luckily the reason I post here today is that I finally got a laptop that will run LFS, will have a DFP in a week or 2 and then an S2 licence immediately afterwards

I'm looking forward greatly to my LFS experience but the experiences I've had and still have with Forza are great. Forza is a great game and has many things the console market was missing before it's release. I have a great time with it.

The main problem, and I sighted this before it was released, is the lack of a true Force Feedback wheel for the xbox. If it wasn't for this I reckon Forza would be a truly great game. Sure it's not ultra realistic like LFS but it wasn't really ever meant to be.

I'm hoping I can be a fan of both console and PC gaming though it seems from the posts here console gamers are on the outer?

Quote from deggis :

There are plenty of them... you would just break your leg when kicking all those fanboys.

As I said in the first post in this thread that it really pisses me off that both Forza and GT4 are marketed as simulations. That's why most the console boys think those are as realistic as driving games can get... pretty sad actually.

yeah i thought gt3 was as real as it gets untill i started playing lfs and also got my license around the same time.

talking about sims at this feedback level is pretty pointless.
in my opinion much much much more is needed to trick me and my sceptic brain to believe i'm inside a race-weekend...

the smell, vibrations of the road, engine sound, FEAR of getting injured, and many more sensations i just can't experience, sitting in my flat playing lfs.

so as long there's no "holodeck" invented or real races are much much cheaper, i think to argue about tiny little details is a waste of time.

but still i won't quit doing it, and if it's just for sharing some flames :munching_

i got forza and i still think lfs is the best forza's a good game to play and gets fun when you have friends around for drunken racing
but lfs kicks butt over gt4 (played all gt's but not gt4) but there are nice selection of cars in forza

!!LFS RULES!!

Quote from deggis :

The thing what pisses me off is that they call Forza (and GT4) a sim (which is bullshit). All the 100 000 000 console fan boys who play Forza/GT4 think it's the ultimate simulation just because the marketing man invented a good slogan. I've never got convinced a single fan boy that Forza/GT4 is just a semi-sim/arcade.

Well, I was about to say you could convince me, but I'm already on your train of thought, haha. I've been a GT4 fan boy from before the first one hit the shelves, (and still am), but I agree, it can't be called a full "simulator". If it was, it just wouldn't sell. (though compaired with 90% of all the other console driving titles, I'll let them call it a simulator, haha) I'm gonna go on to back GT4 in this thread though, above Forza. I know many will dissagree, but that's just me. I've never been impressed enough with any X-Box racing titles to even bother buying an X-Box, and Forza hasn't done it for me either. (GT is the reason I have a PS2, and will have a 3) It's a great game though. As for the competition in GT4, I purposely give myself competition. I don't go nuts and just deck out each car to the max, I "tastefully" mod them to be on the edge of the pack/realistically budgeted, and I try and race cleanly, (no bumpercars to get around the corners), and due to that, it's still all about the driving to me. Like stated about Forza above, it's great for drunken weekend driving with your buddies too, haha. LFS and the GT series will probably be the only two titles I faithully play for a long long time though, and I can't wait to finally get a DFP. But back to the original topic.. Yeah, Forza should be a good diversion, get it and have fun! (or if you have access, rent it first, as well as GT4)

EDIT-oh yea, LFS RULES ALL THOUGH!!!