The online racing simulator
What are the various visor colours can I get?
(77 posts, started )
Nobody is going to just hand you an opportunity to go racing, just cos you have written a few letters, and attended a karting session, But that shouldnt dampen your spirits. I know you are very keen, from what Ive read, and discussed with you, you are very competative, but none of that makes a racing driver, with out a drive.

Your going to have to spend your own cash my friend, like everyone else. No one gets a drive handed to them for nothing - unless you are fortunate to have your name drawn out of the hat in a raffle where you win a season drive. The odds are well stacked against you.

I recall from the days I wanted to become a pro cricketer, I wrote the letters, to my county, and the neighbouring county. They were acknowledged, and I was invited to attend a trial. Then for 2 years, I trawled back wards and forwards for nets twice a week, Tuesday and Thursdays - 4 hours travelling for a 2 hour session - at my own cost. Sponsorship - I could only get when I got a regular place in the 1st or 2nd squad..... do you know how hard that is? All I wanted was assistance with travel and equipment. If I left work early to play a match - I lost money, If I went to a match, it cost me money - There was no way I could play, work and live.

I tried and loved it but real life won through. Not raining on your parade bud but - try it, but dont be dissapointed if it dont come off, at least you can say you tried.
I appreciate the kind words and advice guys. Honestly, I've thought about karting, true, I'm 17, maybe a bit old for karts but still young enough to prove something. Thing is though, circumstances force me to either compete in the national Rotax Championship which in fact costs around the same amount of money to buy the kart, spares and entry fees to the championship as the Formula BMW Championship. So I have 2 options, either compete in a proper racing car that does lead somewhere or compete in something that even if, by chance, I'm much better than my opponents, I still won't get anywhere. Trust me, I know this for a fact. You may think that I'm wrong but explain to me how Ahmed Ghanem, a name I mentioned before, the guy who won many of the National Rotax Championships but can't nail a single sponsor. True, he's a very ambitious and unrealistic character, asking for hefty amounts of cash from companies compared to me but still, no company was interested. You could say that I'm in a worse position, compared to him, I know that but I'm being more realistic about where I want to start racing. He's talking to companies about 100s of thousands of dollars to "start" racing in race cars. I'm only asking for 8000 Euros (Yes, it is 8000 Euros, like Eight Thousand Euros Smile). Like companies abroad, they see karting as a kids thing, doesn't really prove anything because they're so different to race cars. As I said, I'll write up a proposal soon and actually, I'll be competing in a national karting event that will have quite a good amount of coverage, appearing on many international sports channels so I guess thats good exposure of showing me being serious about racing.

I know its a tough journey tristan, I may not be familiar with how tough it can be but I know myself and I know that I will persevere
8000 euros isn't a huge amount of money. It's loan territory, if you've got a job and are credit-worthy. It might be a case of putting your own money where your mouth is for the first year and then see if you can get sponsorship the second year.
Hell, if 8000 euro's buys me a race for a season, i'm there! Uhmm
€8000 is about £5500. Which is roughly what we spend per year on racing ourselves all in (including race entry, transport, parts, materials etc etc).

And that is budget racing, avoiding some of the long distance races.

Edit: You say you know yourself, and you will persevere, but if you want to get to F1 then might I suggest you do a bit of research and find out how much money YOU will need NOT INCLUDING sponsorship. It will cost YOU (not sponsors, but you're own hard earned money) tens and tens of thousands of pounds. You will have several jobs, live in the cheapest house you can find (parents or sharing a bedsit with 3+ other drivers). Every moment you are not driving a car you will be reading about it, training in a gym (or a home gym - you can make a lot of the stuff you need yourself, especially if you have a spare helmet to make the neck training thingy which WILL help).

You will have to spend the next 10 years doing NOTHING but live and breathe the route to F1. You will not play any computer games in that time, because any time playing is time you are NOT getting to F1. Maybe at Christmas or other people's birthdays you can have a play, but not your own - self-sacrifice is important. You will not drink alcohol (except at the above events), and you will see a dietitian at least once a month.

And this is making it sound easy - it's going to be WAY WAY WAY harder than that. Money and talent are not enough. Money without talent is useless (not that you can get sponsorship without demonstrating talent). Talent without money is useless. But you need talent, money, dedication, single-mindedness, fitness, determination, luck, contacts, exposure, support. And then, once you manage to get all of this, you need to do a brilliant race in front of the right people (the talent spotters - and you won't know who they are or where they are watching you). And after they spot you (if) you need to back it up with brilliant races every subsequent time (with the occasional slip to show how you can recover from mistakes or motivate a team when the chips are down).

So, you're 17. Better get a move on.
This isn't a budget series - that figure is to attend ONE scholarship event. BMW loan you the car, overalls etc. and you go out and lap. The fastest guys (dependant on the event, and the nationalities involved - some events will only take one per nation) will be picked up and offered the $50,000US scholarship to help them get going and also given some sponsor contacts.
As I said they estimate (in the Asia series) that the 50K will account for about 35% of the season's budget.
I can't find details to hand of privateering costs for Asia, the BMW UK-based series' site has entry fee costs and car costs (the car alone is close to £40,000UK which according to xe.net is 450,000 Egyptian pounds).

This is much higher level than karting, it is the equivalent of F3.
#33 - J.B.
Some info: http://66.102.9.104/search?q=c ... l=en&ct=clnk&cd=1

Looks to me that the rookie package is more of a glorified and overpriced license course for than a realistic series for beginners.

I did something similar for VW Lupo Cup a few years ago, paying with self earned money, having been told that only beginners were allowed to take part. In reality I faced people who had experience of full formula ford seasons etc. so I lost my money without being taken seriously.

But things may be very different in Egypt. As I told you in the PM you didn't even answer, you really should try to somehow make the first step before contacting sponsors so that you have at least something to show them. Right know you are about to ask them to pay for your license course. If you can at least get through that stage by yourself you may get some credible feedback from the BMW school that you can show your potential sponsors.

EDIT: hang on, think I got that wrong. The rookie package is a license course + 8 races at Bahrain. That is good value for 8000€!
Quote from J.B. :EDIT: hang on, think I got that wrong. The rookie package is a license course + 8 races at Bahrain. That is good value for 8000€!

So it's like a limited multiplayer demo version that only has Bahrain?
Thats the pdf document but I have a newer one based on the 07/08 season. J.B. sorry that I didn't answer your PM, I was just very busy. Yeah, it is in fact 8000 for the course + a full season so its pretty good. I'm going to start talking to my dad, uncles and aunts to see if they're willing to chip in, however, what I fear is that this would mean that it'll either be me or my bro and I really don't like being in that position because either way, one of us is gonna be quite pissy about it and then the one who drives won't be able to focus because of the inevitable argument between him and the other guy that happened before is occupying his mind.

I might just try and take the course on its own to meet the guy who's running it, get some contacts of the series and ask for advice on sponsorship. They may be able to help me.
I have 3 small points to add.

First, responding to the original question about visors.... chose a colour (or colours) that actually do something for your visibility, and worry about fashion later. grey is best for bright sunny days, yellow is best for dim, cloudy days, and blue or green are a good comprimise for mixed light conditions.

As for sponsorship, first of all, if you don't have a log book, any effort you put into cover letters is a waste of time. Sponsors need to know what specific events you have participated in, and how you placed. They will consider sponsoring you as an advertising expense, so just like any other ad expense (radio or TV, magazines, internet, etc), they need to know that there will actually be an audience to see their logo, and that said audience is within their target demographic. Your log book will be the proof that you are worth spending money on, and without one they wont even give you a second thought.

Second, be prepared for disappointment even when you do start to make progress in getting sponsored. The first sponsorship deals you are likely to get will be nothing more than a discount on the products that the sponsor sells. For example, you might get 10-50% off on tires if you agree to put the tire manufacturor's sticker on your car (and prove that you did by sending in photos of yourself racing). If you are looking for a fully funded race seat and a take home salary on top, you need to be winning championships, not just races.
#37 - J.B.
Quote from Leprekaun :Thats the pdf document but I have a newer one based on the 07/08 season. J.B. sorry that I didn't answer your PM, I was just very busy.

Ah, OK, was wondering if there was something you didn't like in the PM. Good luck and keep us updated!

Quote from thisnameistaken :So it's like a limited multiplayer demo version that only has Bahrain?

but it has auto skin download!
Well, I'd like to bring something to your attention lads. You say that if I have no previous experience of racing, which I have done 2 official karting races, then what do you propose I do?. I've already mentioned that there are only 2 options and both of them cost the same (National Rotax Championship or Formula BMW Series) so how do I make a log book if they are the only 2 major racing series in region, if you know, please tell me.
Quote from Leprekaun :Well, I'd like to bring something to your attention lads. You say that if I have no previous experience of racing, which I have done 2 official karting races, then what do you propose I do?. I've already mentioned that there are only 2 options and both of them cost the same (National Rotax Championship or Formula BMW Series) so how do I make a log book if they are the only 2 major racing series in region, if you know, please tell me.

although the formula bmw series uses more "grown up" cars, i think your best chance of getting exposure would be in rotax. if you are fast, i'd imagine you would really only need to race karts for a year or two before opportunities start to present themselves.
No one is saying don't take part. Just that you will NOT get sponsorship anywhere near what you seem to want right now. Save up, get a couple of seasons under your belt (you might get a podium, but I doubt you'll win), then approach the sponsors.

You seem to think relatives will help - that may be so, but you won't get sponsors unless you show YOU are willing to do some work, not just wait for handouts from everyone else.
Quote from Leprekaun :Well, I'd like to bring something to your attention lads. You say that if I have no previous experience of racing, which I have done 2 official karting races, then what do you propose I do?. I've already mentioned that there are only 2 options and both of them cost the same (National Rotax Championship or Formula BMW Series) so how do I make a log book if they are the only 2 major racing series in region, if you know, please tell me.

The problem you've got as many have already said is you've no `racing` CV to fall back on. I raced karts for 3 years and of all the companies I approached only one ever sponsored me. Companies just aren't interested because a) They get people wanting sponsorship all the time for various reasons and b) Can't see what there money will give them. Put yourself in the shoes of the companies you’re approaching, would you really give some person you've never heard of money? What benefit does it have to your company? The answer is none unless you actually make it anywhere to a series with decent media coverage.

Good luck with it but I can't help but feel your being very ambitious. There's not a single driver I know of who was sponsored before they started racing...
Quote from Leprekaun :Well, I'd like to bring something to your attention lads. You say that if I have no previous experience of racing, which I have done 2 official karting races, then what do you propose I do?. I've already mentioned that there are only 2 options and both of them cost the same (National Rotax Championship or Formula BMW Series) so how do I make a log book if they are the only 2 major racing series in region, if you know, please tell me.

You seem to have the wrong image, so let me put it this way:

Going to a company and asking them to sponsor your racing is like a demo racer coming here and asking for a free S2-licence right away... Only in your case it's much more expensive and they ALL turn every penny twice before spending it... If you've ever worked before, you'd know that...
something else to consider would be volunteering at your local track or sports car club. they always need marshals etc, and it would be a great way to get to know some of the influential people in your area, and if you are lucky then they might introduce you to people who can help you out.
Quote from Monkeymike :
This is much higher level than karting, it is the equivalent of F3.

TBH Formula BMW is along way bellow F3, which now more than ever is a small single seater formula trying to play top level single seaters, the money involved is very serious and if you're absolutely fantastic it could be picking ground for straight into F1. Honestly though the chance of getting picked to go into F1 out of GP2/Nippon/F3/Renault V6 is very unlikely. In reality by the time you're start your first circuit race you will have to show some supernatural talent if you haven't already had serious negotiations with an F1 team.

If you really wanted to get into F1 you should have done it through karts, it's what everybody watches now and unless you're pre-destined to F1 you're very unlikely to get accepted by the establishment until you become world champion (look at Mansell). Seeing as you're my age and haven't got any track experience I think you're far too late to start chasing your dream, it just isn't going to happen, if you'd started pouring money into karting 10 years ago then there may have been a remote possiblilty of it actually paying off, I can guarantee you it won't now.


£5500 doesn't buy you a full seasons racing in a full prepared hired car, I'm pretty sure there's some catch you've missed there. For starters have you factored in the travel and accommodation costs, which for a full season could easily be as much as the posted price itself. Most companies won't be interested in providing anywhere near the amount of sponsorship required to actually cover a substantial proportion of costs until you've got a pretty sure fire way into F1 lined up if you jump through the hoops.

My suggestion to you is that you either decide to go ahead with the knowledge that if you're lucky, with a huge amount of personal expenditure, you could be running in single seaters for a few years and if successful could possibly get a paid drive in touring or sportscars, but in the end of the day know that you will never end up in F1. Alternatively you could put the money you've saved up for this into a pot and save it to go club racing, where you'd get far more action for a fraction of the price and none of the commitment of trying to go pro. There's plenty of sponsorship available at club level as well but most of it is of a fairly nominal financial value, generally local companies who wish to use it as an internal motivation tool and to get the company a bit of exposure in the local press, many people find having a local sponsor gives them greater motivation and contributes a bit towards their costs (which are a tiny fraction of what you're looking at).

As for the original question you want a decent helmet designed for amateur racing, probably worth getting HANS posts because were you to get anywhere you'll probably need them. As for a visor you don't need a shiny one or tear offs. Remember helmets, overalls, and I presume HANS are lifed. There are different standards, if you're going to be racing on different continents you need to check what you need but you are likely to require more than the basic national body standards.

Most provide similar levels of protection, most of the difference is in comfort and style (if you can call it that) unless you've got money flowing over (which you certainly haven't) then you can completely ignore everything but the basic function of a helmet, to protect your head, when ordering.

You also need to consider other bits of kit. You'll need a pair of gloves, there are FIA standards for them although at low level events there is no requirement AFAIK to actually have an FIA approved pair. You'd be a fool to splash out on a fancy visor and not buy a pair of fire proof gloves though. You'll also require some kind of footwear, like the gloves there are standards but for national racing you're not normally obliged to have them. Then you've got to consider whether you want to purchase a HANS system, it's your choice but given the fact I'm pretty sure they're lifed I wouldn't buy one until you actually need it. You can also consider fireproof undergarments, which TBH are more of a comfort/money wasting thing which you don't need and a balaclava, which AFAIK is no longer required at lower level (at least most people choose to run without them on grounds of comfort) I'm not sure if they are actually required and checked at higher level still in the end of the day it's a trade off between comfort and safety.

That's just the basic gear that you can't do without you could easily spend the season budget you've got on kitting yourself up and with the way you sounded at the start of this thread it seems like the route you were taking.
#45 - J.B.
I think some of you are missing that he isn't in Europe. Maybe he can manage to impress someone who's interested in putting his money behind a guy who can do something no Egyptian has done before. He'll need luck but if he meets the right people and has the talent, who knows.

In Europe of course you wouldn't stand a chance if you are 17 and have no experience or money.
Quote from J.B. :I think some of you are missing that he isn't in Europe. Maybe he can manage to impress someone who's interested in putting his money behind a guy who can do something no Egyptian has done before. He'll need luck but if he meets the right people and has the talent, who knows.

In reality I think it'll make little difference, it may help further down the line when it comes to F1 teams looking for future stars but at this stage there's just no way anybody is going to throw out sponsorship money, nobody ever gets sponsored before they've turned a wheel it just doesn't happen. TBH the companies that actually hand out meaningful sums of money at top level motorsport (note there are none in the starting formulas) really do so based on the media potential statistics more than an experience and knowledge of motorsport. Sponsoring a nobody into an extremely expensive activity with a very low success rate will not slip through the nets of any business I'm afraid Wink
#47 - J.B.
Agree about the companies. I'm thinking more along the lines of the wealthy benefactor that wants to invest in the long term to make a profit on possible future earnings of the driver.
Quote from J.B. :Agree about the companies. I'm thinking more along the lines of the wealthy benefactor that wants to invest in the long term to make a profit on possible future earnings of the driver.

I can only think of one way a young man, would get a wealthy benefactor to invest money, but you wouldnt be able to sit in the race seat for a while....... Thumbs upUhmm
Quote from ajp71 :TBH Formula BMW is along way bellow F3, which now more than ever is a small single seater formula trying to play top level single seaters

My mistake - I typed equivalent when I meant to say that it provides the entry to F3 (at least in Asia).

What Leprekaun is actually looking at isn't that series though (as it's across the whole of Asia) it's more like a 'trainer' for that series.

I think in reality Leprekaun, without having some family/friends in a position to sponsor some of it, I'd agree that you'd be looking to pay for this then get real sponsorship should you be quick enough to get in the full Asian series.
Could I just ask as well why has he decided to go for the Asian championship? From my crude geography if you want to actually take it seriously it will mean living away from home wherever and bluntly I think more eyes are still focused on European, especially UK up and coming series than anywhere else.

What are the various visor colours can I get?
(77 posts, started )
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