Quote from squidhead :

but you have to admit, when it the tail comes out - the XRT keeps things undramatic, and keeps you in control... it's perfectly balanced

Nope, I don't have to admit. When the car spins out, and I'm facing the wrong direction, I don't call it perfectly balanced. Perfectly balanced is when the tail smoothly breaks out to rotate yourself around the turn, not swinging out at a 90 degree show drift style cornering.

The problem I think is that entire class of cars, the TBO. They are all just so unresponsive. I turn the wheel, and the car...... wait...... just a few more...... Ok, there, now it responds. But throttle response in the XRT in comparison to the steering response is instantaneous.

I don't like any of the XRs. The XRG, XRT, nor the XRR. I can't drive any one of them. I have better lap times in the XFG than I do in the XRT, LOL.

Quote from mrodgers :

Nope, I don't have to admit. When the car spins out, and I'm facing the wrong direction, I don't call it perfectly balanced. Perfectly balanced is when the tail smoothly breaks out to rotate yourself around the turn, not swinging out at a 90 degree show drift style cornering.

The problem I think is that entire class of cars, the TBO. They are all just so unresponsive. I turn the wheel, and the car...... wait...... just a few more...... Ok, there, now it responds. But throttle response in the XRT in comparison to the steering response is instantaneous.

I don't like any of the XRs. The XRG, XRT, nor the XRR. I can't drive any one of them. I have better lap times in the XFG than I do in the XRT, LOL.

What is your racing car?

From what i remember he is an FZR Whore (at Westhill Reverse iirc)

Must say i disagree about the FXO though, nimble, good looks, easy to the limit, hard on it, when you learn how to drive it, no understeer, its just a great car.

The XRG is lovely as you can balance it with the throttle, the LX4 is similar, the LX6 is great as a ballsy screamer you have to treat the right way, the FO8 is also good, the FOX is a little tame though. Have a secret love for the XRR, too, not sure why though.

Racing, I like the easy to drive style of the 4WD cars, RB4 and FXR.

For drifting I like the XRT, but for some tracks you need the FZ5's extra power.

Since i'm a newb, i havent learned much about the setups yet. I did the locked differential, and it helps a bit. Best time now 1:37.58

Well, I think I will like to plug how awesome the XFR is for learning to race. Once you step in it you think, oh crap, the tyres, how do I keep those from burning up. This makes you drive much cleaner, smoother, avoid understeer and use a little oversteer to your advantage. It makes for close racing, since its a GTR of the XFG, but at an increased pace.

/plug over

whoa...anyway, if your a sort of drifter, and you know how to control the car even if it starts sliding a bit (you dont HAVE to be a drifter), well than, using Noseer setup..he got a 1:23:09, and using his setup, i managed to average ot some good 1:24:50s, and my pb was a 1:23:64 , but i suppose that was like, 1 year ago, now days when i try drive, i only get 1:25-1:27

Just try take the corners slower at first...than faster, basically, max speed you wanna be going is, 50 on the first corner, flat out on chicane, let go for 0.2 seconds, than floor it again half way through, brake when the more darker tarmac starts...and get to a speed of about...65-67mph, and than till the last corner, take all those corners at mostly 70mph, and on last corner take that at...well, 70-75mph?, and then your all good, try to keep the car not sliding much, apart from maybe the first corner, you should get some good entry angle in that, it slows the car down well, and gets you going good luck with that combo

Drift: XRT, FZ5

Fast Race/Road cars: GTRs (FXR, XRR, FZR), i suggest FXR

Close competition: XFG, XRG, UF1

Fast FWD: UFR, XFR

Reasonably Fast "Touring car" (TBO): XRT, FXO, RB4, (RB4 is fastest, than XRT, than FXO)

"Go Karting": MRT (For some reason, isn't used as much as i'd like to see

Fun Formula: FOX

When you know what your doing : BF1

Hope this little guide thing i put together in like...2 mins helps

Thanks
Harjun

No no no, stay away from front-wheel drive. First of all, it'll teach you bad habits. Secondly, FWD is just plain evil.

I mean...like, close fun competition right?

Its not bad for learning

PS: i hate it aswell

RWD: FUN
4WD:FUN
FWD: FUN..in reverse

Quote from Forbin :

No no no, stay away from front-wheel drive. First of all, it'll teach you bad habits. Secondly, FWD is just plain evil.

What bad habits, I need to check if I have them

Bad habits like the ability to drive a FWD car.

I'm half serious. It's a completely different style of driving and can only hurt you when you try to move to the real race cars, the RWD ones.

I love RWD, sooo much fun. Yeah the FXR is nice, soooo sweet sounding when redlining. I guess I like the XRT a lot cause its a bit of a challenge for racing, and I'm happy with a healthy medium power.

Now that I'm getting better at driving, I'm trying to learn how to drift with the XRT. Using 43% power 33% coast. My method is todo inert, turn away from the corner, then oversteer in.

Did some laps with the FXR, wow it handles so easily. Best time was only 1:23.53, not used to how it handles the corners yet.

Quote from Jakg :

From what i remember he is an FZR Whore (at Westhill Reverse iirc)

Nope, was FZR at preferably Westhill normal direction, but the only races you could find until STCC/CTRA was FZR at AS National. Sad to say I have way to many laps there because I don't care for the FOX.

Quote from Jakg :

Must say i disagree about the FXO though, nimble, good looks, easy to the limit, hard on it, when you learn how to drive it, no understeer, its just a great car.

I just find the FXO extremely unresponsive. I turn the wheel and the car turns.............................. now. Just feels to heavy for me.

Quote from agm_ultimatex :

What is your racing car?

Since you asked, my prefered car(s) to race are the XFG, LX4, FZ5 (but you never see them, ever), and the FZR. I hate FWD, all except that little XFG, I love racing with that thing. Why everyone seems to love the TBO class and I hate it, I have no clue. Why everyone says the XRT and FXO are great cars, but I hate driving them, I don't know. I don't find either of them great cars. The FZ5 and FZR are so easy to control compared to the XRT. I always hear about the weight being in the rear of those two causing the massive oversteer, but I find the opposite. The weight in the rear is so easy to control rather than the front engined XR cars including the XRR.

To each there own. I think the XFG doesn't suit me at all. I tried the XRR out, RWD version of XFG. I did 1.19.72, its really nice too.

as I understood it, FWD is used a lot on road cars since its easier to learn to drive, more forgiving, safer (dont spin out exiting corners) since you understeer more than oversteer, which is harder to correct?

And in LFS this leaves more room for people to learn racecraft, lines, economy and setups.

Just my opinion of course.

Exactly my point, it's so forgiving that you never spin out. In fact, the easiest way to recover from a slide in a FWD car (should you ever find yourself in this rare circumstance ) is to simply stomp on the gas. You never have to learn to countersteer, which is an invaluable skill to have and not having it severely limits your ability to drive the proper cars.

If you're spinning out in the RWD cars, you've clearly spent far too much time driving FWD cars.

Except when I drive my Mazda 3 on stock tires through canadian winters. Then I start sliding near stop points and have to apply it a bit.

Maybe there are some people who just like FWD more and think they are the "proper" cars.

Quote from Forbin :

Exactly my point, it's so forgiving that you never spin out. In fact, the easiest way to recover from a slide in a FWD car (should you ever find yourself in this rare circumstance ) is to simply stomp on the gas. You never have to learn to countersteer, which is an invaluable skill to have and not having it severely limits your ability to drive the proper cars.

If you're spinning out in the RWD cars, you've clearly spent far too much time driving FWD cars.

Well I meant, people spinning out on real life road driving but yeah, you would probably find that most people on todays roads would be unable to cope with a RWD car compared to a driver who learnt and always drives one. Is it better to just ignore FWD and go to RWD and stick to that, or better to learn FWD then put that to use in RWD later and learn that more specific aspect of it?

edit: I have been racing a lot in the XRG lately, and I first raced on XFG, I learnt the lines, the track, the braking distances, then just got in the RWD car and found it quite the advantage. I just adjusted to the different car because i could focus on just this aspect.

If it has RWD, and it doesn't have downforce, drive it.
Or if you don't mind the massive amounts of grip + downforce, try the Formula XR/FOX.

Take the LX6 out on BL2. If you can drive that combo you can drive anything.

Quote from richy :

as I understood it, FWD is used a lot on road cars since its easier to learn to drive, more forgiving, safer (dont spin out exiting corners) since you understeer more than oversteer, which is harder to correct?

Are you talking in real life on public roads here? If so, then FWD was thought up for the ease of moving a vehicle in inclement weather. With RWD trying to push a 3000 pound car through a foot of snow, the rear tires will break traction much easier, thus you won't be able to move the car. Yes, the back end loosing it and sliding also is a factor. With FWD, it allows the car to be pulled through the snow because of the weight being over the powered wheels, unlike RWD. And, yes, the back end will slide much less in nasty weather.

Also, FWD allows a more compact front transaxle, thus less weight, thus a smaller motor to pull the car, thus better economical running and better economics for the automotive manufacturers to build the cars (ie, more money for a new technology that is cheaper to produce putting more money in their pockets.)

In the public automotive world, FWD vs. RWD has nothing to do with oversteer and understeer. It started from trying to move and drive a car in winter weather.

I find the debate on whether FWD's are real cars and RWD's are real cars comical they are all cars and require varying skills to get the most out of them

In my immediate family we've owned everything from early Cooper S mini's, V12 E-Type Jag's, race trim RX3 with 13B intercooled turbo to traditional Aussie V8's. Even a VW Beatle converted into a dune buggy they are all fun in there own ways and they are all real cars

My favorite cars in LFS are pretty much the same as mrodgers XFG, XRG, LX4 and FZ5

Quote from mrodgers :

Are you talking in real life on public roads here? If so, then FWD was thought up for the ease of moving a vehicle in inclement weather. With RWD trying to push a 3000 pound car through a foot of snow, the rear tires will break traction much easier, thus you won't be able to move the car. Yes, the back end loosing it and sliding also is a factor. With FWD, it allows the car to be pulled through the snow because of the weight being over the powered wheels, unlike RWD. And, yes, the back end will slide much less in nasty weather.

Also, FWD allows a more compact front transaxle, thus less weight, thus a smaller motor to pull the car, thus better economical running and better economics for the automotive manufacturers to build the cars (ie, more money for a new technology that is cheaper to produce putting more money in their pockets.)

In the public automotive world, FWD vs. RWD has nothing to do with oversteer and understeer. It started from trying to move and drive a car in winter weather.

I don't really want to quote this wiki as it is not 100% but it says there that...

"Predictable handling characteristics: front-wheel drive cars, with a front weight bias, tend to understeer at the limit, which according to for instance SAAB engineer Gunnar Larsson is easier since it makes instinct correct in avoiding terminal oversteer, and less prone to result in fishtailing or a spin"

...as one of the many advantages of FWD including the increased traction in bad weather and fuel economy. I didnt say it was designed because of that or that was the only reason why FWD is around today, I said that I believe that is one of the reasons it is so common today, even in countries where weather is good. And the reason why I think that the XFR is one of the best cars to go fast in LFS.

And this is there too "It is easier to correct trailing-throttle or trailing-brake oversteer."