Not much info yet but

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/wor ... e/isle_of_man/6735511.stm

1 rider and 2 spectators.

that's horrendous news

Depends how you look at it, from what I've heard it's not uncommon for two or three riders to be shipped home in black bags in any given week, only there's no press coverage unless there's some event on. While I obviously don't enjoy people dying, what makes those that get on the news any more special?

Because it is sad for the motorsports community.

A staggering number of people are killed everyday in accidents, but yet we rarely all share something in common with them, aside from driving.

We are all motorsports fans here, and as such it is sad for our community.

After a bit of digging, they are not the only ones to die this week, a rider died on the 2nd June (not racing) after colliding with another motorcycle, and another rider during the race crashed and ended up in hospital with a couple of broken ribs and pelvis. In the last 100 years (this year is the 100th anniversary) there have been 230 deaths.

TT racing is just asking for it.Accident waiting to happen

Quote from Bob Smith :

Depends how you look at it, from what I've heard it's not uncommon for two or three riders to be shipped home in black bags in any given week, only there's no press coverage unless there's some event on. While I obviously don't enjoy people dying, what makes those that get on the news any more special?

TBH this news is much sadder because spectators have died

Quote from ajp71 :

TBH this news is much sadder because spectators have died

definately but then again theres no info on how the accident happened and where those specators were
in hillclimb vids and vids of other events on public (unsafe) roads you often see spectators standing on the outside of a turn and on similarly stupid spots
imho theres a huge difference between a specator killed in a freak accident and one killed by a vehicle that didnt make the turn

I have to agree with Shotglass on that point; if a spectator is standing in a stupid spot I do not feel sorry for them.

For a spectator in a more logical spot who is killed in a freak accident, now that sucks. Of course, they know the risk when they are there, though. I feel bad for those who are hit by cars when they're legally crossing the street or just walking down a sidewalk because that's not supposed to be a danger spot. When going to an event (at least here) there is usually signs warning you of the risks. If I get killed in a freak accident at a racing track, thats just a shitty deal. At least I was having fun when it happened; same goes for the drivers/riders.

In any case, it's never a good thing to hear people killed. I'm not suprised by the number (230 in the last 100 years) judging by the nature of the event, though.

So if someone is a bit stupid then they deserve to die? Unbelievable.

2007 has been a very light year over here for casualties. Today's events bring the total dead to 4, often we get well into the teens. Part of the reason for the lower toll has been the one way system over the Mountain section. This reduces the chance of a head-on to zero but bikers have generally been lunatics just like always. In the one way section on the way to work on Wednesday I heard a small thud and glanced over to see a biker had knocked my wing mirror with his helmet whilst overtaking me on the outside at 70mph.

We had the first ever 130mph lap today. Think about it. 130mph AVERAGE SPEED. It's way too quick and way too dangerous. Riders can risk their lives if they want, but sooner or later someone will crash, their petrol tank will fly through someone's front window and barbecue a family. Imagine if it was your front window and your kids. The saddest thing is nothing will be done until this happens.

I didn't say someone doing something stupid deserves to die, I said I don't feel sorry for them.

Hit your wing mirror you say? I thought the TT was on closed roads?

Have you ever heard of mad sunday? ive only seen it on tv and friends have told me about it, no speed limits on some of the sections. Im suprised more dont die honestly,

TT is held on public roads that, at the time, are closed. Outside the towns where there are strict 30mph simits, there are no speed limits (i.e. normally) on the Isle Of Man.

I think to a certain point it is essential for the economy since the island relies on tourism.

Quote from Shotglass :

in hillclimb vids and vids of other events on public (unsafe) roads you often see spectators standing on the outside of a turn and on similarly stupid spots

I think given the nature of the TT it's not liable to spectators in the same sense a rally or the long dirt hillclimbs are because it's AFAIK fenced off all the way round and the spectator sections in dangerous spots have hay bales and proper marshalling, so this is really two spectator fatalities at a race circuit.

As for the speed, yes it's very very fast but I have no issue with that nobody pretends the TT is safe and as it's not part of any major championship there shouldn't be riders who feel pressurised to race there. TBH if you love doing it despite the risk then that's fine, making sure spectators are kept safe, so long as they are sensible has to come first though.

Quote from MAGGOT :

Hit your wing mirror you say? I thought the TT was on closed roads?

The competition happens on closed roads. The roads themselves are very popular with bikers with large numbers coming shortly before the TT, as I understand it a large number of the fatalities are road bikers crashing not competitors, who have the advantage of a closed road, racing leathers/helmets and fast medical assistance (often overlooked but one of the most important things in keeping modern motorsport safe).

Quote from Shotglass :

in hillclimb vids and vids of other events on public (unsafe) roads you often see spectators standing on the outside of a turn and on similarly stupid spots

You can see that even in WRC events... just incredible there's not more accidents happening (expect the one that happened in Rally of Mexico, not this kind of situation though).

.

rally isnt exactly known for particularly intelligent spectators though ... remember the group b days when drivers had to constantly race through a wall of spectators 10m in front of the car ?

Quote from Shotglass :

rally isnt exactly known for particularly intelligent spectators though ... remember the group b days when drivers had to constantly race through a wall of spectators 10m in front of the car ?

http://youtube.com/watch?v=G6EOCtL_26s

(already posted this in my reply above but I thought it was too offtopic, well here it is then anyway )

Quote from ajp71 :

I think given the nature of the TT it's not liable to spectators in the same sense a rally or the long dirt hillclimbs are because it's AFAIK fenced off all the way round and the spectator sections in dangerous spots have hay bales and proper marshalling, so this is really two spectator fatalities at a race circuit.

No, not fenced off. As the circuit is so long most marshall posts are not visual contact with one another. The Mountain section has 90 marshalls for a 15 mile length. Do the maths. There are ropes over junctions. It is very much like a rally stage, except these things are doing 187mph less than 8 feet from people's front doors. There are no gravel traps (there was one but it was removed). There is no run off areas. Race circuit my arse.

Dare I say, monaco meets the Nordschleife... It's bound to happen, and it'll only get worse when they start pushing above 130mph

Quote from Storm_Cloud :

No, not fenced off. As the circuit is so long most marshall posts are not visual contact with one another. The Mountain section has 90 marshalls for a 15 mile length. Do the maths. There are ropes over junctions. It is very much like a rally stage, except these things are doing 187mph less than 8 feet from people's front doors. There are no gravel traps (there was one but it was removed). There is no run off areas. Race circuit my arse.

From what I've seen of it though the spectator areas were all designated and unlike a rally stage it was actively marshalled with full flag points, maybe more like a hillclimb but certainly far more organised than a rally stage.

The riders know what they are in for when the ride at the IOM and spectators should know as well.

Shaun Harris was the rider who broke both legs, pelvis and right arm. Hes quite well known in New Zealand motorcycling.

Quote from Bob Smith :

Depends how you look at it, from what I've heard it's not uncommon for two or three riders to be shipped home in black bags in any given week, only there's no press coverage unless there's some event on. While I obviously don't enjoy people dying, what makes those that get on the news any more special?

Because those who get on the news are the ones we ever know about. Don't be cold.

Quote from 11SuLLy11 :

TT racing is just asking for it.Accident waiting to happen

It's blind remarks like this that make me mad.

The 'TT' (Tourist Trophy) held since 1908 every year except war years is racing on public 'closed roads'.

It carries a certain amount of danger and all of us risk the same just by crossing the road every day.

The 37 3/4 mile circuit is not learnt in 5 minutes, it takes years of learning and the ones that go the fastest are the safest because they KNOW where they are and whats coming next.

"An accident waiting to happen" is the quote by a person that does not know what they are talking about so, consider comments like this as total ignorance!

One of our team apparently wrecked his bike this year at the TT and put himself in hospital. He'd probably be telling you about it himself, except he's broken his back a smidge. Glad he's okay though.. GET WELL SOON CHRIS!

Motorsports are accidents waiting to happen. It's a fact. So are most sports in fact. Roads are accidents waiting to happen (and happening every day). Playground swings are accidents waiting to happen. Circuses, roundabouts and beaches.

I think there's this pressure on society to put fences on the edges of every cliff, and to limit anything/everything that carries a bit of risk, and I have to say that it ALL flies in the face of human nature. It is in our nature to pioneer, to risk and to push the boundaries in every aspect of our lives. That's what we do. It's WHY we ARE.

Ouch, hope it's nothing to serious