My point of view:
We were starting... First chicane i touched Legsy sothat he spun a quater, but could go on, now T3 i wanted to have too much succes! I touched him sothat he spun onto the outer kerb... unluckyly JamieB came with to much speed and hit him.
I'm sorry that I wanted to breake that centimeters later! I'm realy sry that it caused that accident and consequently the disconnect because of your car in the sand.
Gonna have to put my post in here too i'm afraid, as it all but ruined my 1st race this evening and almost sent me to pits ....
Complaint Number 1
Division 2
FE Green Rev
Lap 2, Turn 1
Feature Race
Antt69 turned in on me after a great drive into turn 1, I was much faster at that time and it appeared that he just did not look
This left me with an 8th place finish when I was looking at 2nd
Complaint Number 2
Division 2
Lap 7, Turn 10 (I think!) - End of back straight, left hander
Again, antt69 turned in on me again after I had clearly beaten him into the corner..... Again it appeared he did not look :smash3d:
This cost me the win
I dont want to moan but this could well have cost me the championship
Having looked at the replays I can honestly say that neither incident was my fault.
The 1st incident happened on the 2nd lap of a 20 lap race. As we approached the fastest corner on the track tongey had half a car on me then dissapeared from my view, I did'nt think he was gona try anything silly so I started to turn in. However tongey had decided that he was good to pass & went for it. When i saw him up the inside of me I braked & opposite locked but I could not avoid the collision.
I think tongey chose the wrong time & wrong corner to pass me. He had 19 laps to pass me but went for an ambitious move on the fastest corner of the track. A little over enthusiastic I feel.
The 2nd incident happened in lap 7 of the sprint race tongey was close behind me coming down to the tight left hand turn at the bottom of the straight. At the braking point he had no overlap whatsoever & overshot the corner trying to out brake me. I turned in & just clipped his rear which spun him.
My first reaction was that it was my fault so I stopped & waited for him to rejoin but after viewing the replay it is clear that it was another over ambitious overtake that resulted in an accident.
So after all said & done I have to ask who's ruined who's championship hopes??? You have to remember I was leading both races when the crashes happened. If tongey had just a little more patience I am sure none of these accidents would have happened & we all would have had a much more enjoyable race.
First: Please don't take it too hard. No one will get a dish or bowl or keg for winning here, the UF1 mayhem is a fun championship. So HAVE FUN FFS ;-)
Second: As Mikey already mentioned there are indeed several people cutting more than once, and I've posted before race 1 that there might be some extra time left for the marshals to look at the "on/off track behaviour" of all racers.
This time we didn't pull up heavy barricades, not even hay bales. If we see someone deliberately being off track with all 4 wheels more than once, or getting the fastest race lap, he/she () will be punished.
For all bean counters:
--NO, if someone is off track and doesn't get any time advantage (e.g. because of an accident) It is not considered cutting
--NO, 4 wheels in the air don't count as cutting ;-)
--YES, the curbs count as "track", don't be afraid, you wuzzies
--NO, you won't get any extra points for aerial stunts! (I also twisted it once)
It's unbelievable really butz. When we had the barriers on fe1 everyone complained about it so we decided to drop barriers altogether. But the stuff I've seen in this quali in unbelievable. I have like a A4 full of people doing wrong, and this is just a 15 minute session!!!
All by all I'm really disappointed by a couple of drivers who I considered clean drivers resorting to bad racing etiquette, and especially with 1 driver who made a big list of offenses.
I admit I think I cut twice due to hitting the corner too fast in race 2 driving on (and over) the limit, had no option but to cut. Plus I clipped the barrier coming off the bridge that put me off-line.
From what I saw too I was one of the more aggressive drivers over the kerbs
Well, that stuff happens Chris. I had to cut 1 or 2 times as well because I ran out of road. But cutting deliberately in qualifying every lap is a serious offense and shall be punished.
Tongey gets better speed out of last chicane and draws along side Ant along the straight.
I have watched the replay several times and despite Tongey not being visable, from Ants driving position, all drivers have the responsability to know where other drivers are.
Ant turns in at his normal turn in point and looking from the camera above is infact turning too much for the corner, therefore he is leaving NO SPACE for the opponent who is alongside him and has right to the apex of the corner. Ant can try and make a quicker corner than Tongey but has to allow a cars width at the apex, something that was clearly not done in this case.
Verdict
Ant receives an official warning for driving without due care and attention and is fined 10 seconds to his feature race time.
You have a responsability to drive cleanly and not affect other drivers by hitting them because you are unsure or where they are.
You (Ant) are also reminded that you are not allowed to try and shut the door at turnin point whilst the competitor alongside you has rights for that corner, this is a very dangerous thing to do.
Tongey gets better speed out of last chicane and closes up on Ant, but is behind coming into the braking zone.
After the prvious corner where both drivers go off the track, all tyres are dirty. Tongey makes a brave move down the inside and they both brake for the corner. Braking for both however is poor as they both have dirty tyres.
Tongey is not able to take a tght turn in to the corner and may well infact not have made the corner at all, certainly he would have gone very deep to a virtual standstill.
Ant turns in at his normal turn in point and looking from onboard the following suggestions can be made.
1. He is not aware that Tongey is there and is taking his normal racing line
2. He beleives that Tongey is not trying to pass and takes his normal racing line
3. He knows tongey has gone in deep and will not make the corner so is turning in after Tongey flashes past, unfortunately hitting him
4.He knows Tongey is going deep and is attempting an ill-timed switch back.
Verdict
There is insufficient evidence to say what of the above situations ant may have been thinking at the time, but we must look at the facts.
Tongey made a bold attempted pass manouvere on dirty tyres.
Ant did not leave room for a driver on the inside/did not wait until Tongey had passed before turning in.
What we can not say is that if Tongey was not hit whether he would have made the corner.
This will have to go down as an ill-timed racing incident for both parties involved.
It is obvious that you are both going for a championship and are keen to finish ahead of the other but we must also ask that you drive with mutual respect for each other.
Tongey, it was a brave move on dirty tyres, given the time to try that move again would you?
Ant, we do not know what was going on in your head, but again there was no reason to have made contact with tongey with a normal turn in point.
Racing Incident
CASE CLOSED
Both drivers involved with be racing at SO Town with increased Steward Attention.
Sorry but I do not agree. How does tongey have the right to the corner?? He only has half a car overlap at turn in, he should not of attempted the pass?
:ices_rofl WTF?
Thanks for physiological evaluation. Why are you questioning my state of mind?
You seem to have forgotten to give a ruling on the racing incident that took place & instead come out with comments like "we dont know what was going on in your head". Frankly Mr Dru I am offended by this misplaced comment.
IMO the incident was clear cut, Tongey went for a desperate late overtake that did'nt not come off. I was perfectly entitled to take my normal racing line & infact had already committed to doing so when tongey skidded into view. Tongey made the mistake & still you blame me for turning in on him.. Unbelievable!
I have stated what possibly situations was occuring - maybe one of them. we don't know.
all we can say is i tongey was out of your mirrors closing in on you trying to make a pass. Yes as stated it was a brave move, but basically, from what you are saying is that you will always take the normal racing line?? that does not make sense.
Yes, Tongey made a mistake but if you are not prepared for it or willing to change your line then you are just as guilty, therefore we have put it down as a racing accident and warned the pair of you accordingly, becuase both of you cuased an avoidable accident.
The bit thatr you call 'analysising' all that i have tried to put is the accident happened because of one of these reasons - only you can tell us which is correct, but i'm worried that you just keep on saying that you took your normal line.
You have to be aware of people trying to pass or being close for a pass, if they make a pass and you just take your normal line regardless there will always be an accident.
What i am trying to say is they you should be aware of where your opponents are at all times, and be prepared to have to change your line if a competitor is making a move (regardless of whether he has corner rights or not) does that make sense to you?
Maybe if you could explain how you drive in LFS we'd get a better understanding?
do you drive in car view (left or right) or a custom one?
do you look left and right?
do you use pit spotter?
I will apologise if any of the things i have written have offended you, they have not been written to offend you at all, we are just explaining that we could not make a judgement because both people did wrong.
Tongey has said that he probably would not do the same again, but i get the feeling that you are hell bent on thinking that this is purely Tongeys fault and as such would do exactly the same again. which is worrying.
Well thankfully there is only one round left and then we don't have to rule on any future actions which involve you so then we can not offend you in the future with explaining a racing incident from the marshall's point of view.
This is the second lap incident. Tongey is clearly alongside and has rights for the corner, however you take your normal racing line, which by the way is illegal (with the exit going dtraight over the chicane and cutting)
You need more spatical awareness in the game i'm afraid both crashes are occuring where they do not need to becuase you are not 'aware' of where other drivers are (regardless if they have corner rights or not) it is still your duty to be aware of these attempts and try to avoid accidents rather than just driver your normal lines tbh
Sorry but you still dont explain how half a car overlap is his right to the corner? You also do not take into account the type of corner we are approaching. IMO if I had had left room for both of us to enter the corner then their would of been contact at the chicane as two cars could not go side by side through that part of the track.
The incident came down to who was prepared to yield first & as I was in front of him & had track position. I was not prepared to yield. (he crashed into me because he refused to yield)
I am not saying that I am not at fault, simply that it was both of our faults & was indeed an avoidable incident. I dispute the fact that he had the right to the corner I have always raced on the premise that you must have more than half a car overlap to have the right to a corner, in this situation he did not. However if your league rules differ to that of real life racing then I will accept I was in the wrong.
I think if you look at the wider picture you have to take into account the type of corner we were approaching & how far through the race we were. I viewed it as an ambitious pass at such an early stage in a long race, infact there was no need for him to have attempted the pass at that corner. Just bad timing & err's on both our parts.
If you still believe that this incident was purely my fault then I need to look at the way I race in LFS, I was only protecting my position.
I would just like to add that I knew exactly where he was in relation to me on the track. When he failed to brake enough to make the corner & tbh I never thought he would, I attempted the switch back & only just caught the rear of his car by a narrow margin. There was no malicious intent on my part.
I feel that I was not to blame for this incident, tongeys last gasp overtaking was to blame. I have attached a pic of my attempted switchback.
I bear no hard feelings over this & whatever you rule on the incidents is your decision & I will respect that.
I've reviewed the case now and these are my findings.
At brake point he has 40% overlap.
At turn in point he has 50% overlap
You turn towards an apex 3 meters to the inside of the normal apex, deliberately cutting him. You knew he was next to you, but according to you not enough, so you deliberately cause an accident because you dont feel like yielding your path to an imaginary apex.
In a rules book I know it specifies that if you have at least 50% overlap at the brake point and turn in point the corner is yours. In this case that was only at the turn in point. In this case it's the job of the car overtaking to not cause a incident.
In this case you actually caused the accident. If you think you have the corner rights, it doesnt give you the right to cut someone off, and thats why you got the penalty (which didnt cause you to lose any points).
Because you didn't lose any points or position by that penalty, I will not look further into it and the penalty will stay.
I have however reviewed an incident in the 2nd race which involved you parking on the track and caused reintjan to crash into you, and several drivers had to take evasive actions because you felt if was ok to park the car on the racing line.
Parking is strictly forbidden, and parking on the racing line will be punished.
For this action you'll receive a 10 second penalty.
This penalty will cause "S14 Drift" to be bumped up to 5th position and "dynofiend to 6th. You will end up in 7th position seeing as they both were within 10 seconds.
) will be punished. 
Dru