N1yln, exactly why were you braking when the green flag had been waved?
Why isnt Mooney allowed to change lanes into a spot where there IS space? Why is it his fault that the space he's moving into suddenly occupied because of YOUR braking car??

Your under race conditions, YOU decided to brake down the straight because Casper for some equally stupid reason decided to brake during the live race.

Its pretty clear where the incident came about!
Mooney hit the rear side of N1yln's braking car
N1yln was braking because Casper felt despite jump-starting he'd apply the brakes.
ALL of which is while the race has gone green!

If Casper doesnt Jump-start OR brake during a live race midway down a straight, then N1yln doesnt need to brake, and that doesnt cause Mooney to run into the back of him.
Casper is the one that gets the car upto 77mph before braking and coasting it to 64mph, before putting the foot down, THAT is why N1yln and Punisher have to brake.

N1yln, instead of applying the brakes, why didnt you make any attempt to overtake Casper? There was plenty of room there.


It seems extremely bizarre to me that people are happy to ignore the fact that the race leader braked while going down the straight under the green flag, why were no questions of these actions asked? Why arent his actions just as stupid as Mooney's by not going right (aka going 3 cars wide!).
If people dont brake down a straight when the race has started, then people behind dont have to react to these things, other people wouldnt brake just as your moving behind them. Bawbags accepted he could have avoided the incident, the teams taken the punishment, but despute the way the whole thing was put on 1 drivers head, and the person up front who started the incident who was obviously far too busy typing messages to notice the race had started, goes away without punishment for wreckless driving, jumpstarting, OR talking during the race, this in the opening seconds of a 6hr race!

Also, my two cents as far as race starting..

If the rules for race start are indeed going to be given a good thinking over, then I have a comment to make. Quite the number of people have suggested "No Passing Before the Start/Finish Line".

This seems like a good idea, in theory, but what happens when the following situations arrive?
1 - Green Flag. Car towards the back of the grid is quicker on the go compared to the car in front of him (Be the cause lag, Shorter gear ratios, better acceleration [look at the XRRs, if the turbo isn't spooled up, acceleration suffers a bit], or just poor reaction time). Because the car in front of the faster car is slower, the car behind has to slow down, thus negating his 'good start'.
2 - Green Flag, all cars hit the gas. One person has to let up because of the slipstream gaining him more ground than the car in front, so the person behind has to lift off, and the person behind has to lift off... until someone actually has to suddenly brake. Then we have the same situation of cars rear-ending each other.

I think care should indeed be taking while overtaking on the launch, and avoided if at all possible, but there are situations where overtaking is nessisary. However, the situations are largely subjective, meaning its a gamble for the driver to debate if he should go or not. Thus, allow passing before the start finish, just not before the straight.

MoE is supposed to be a league filled with clean racers who understand the concept of an endurance race. That is, you must first finish to finish first, and not take overly risky moves. With that idea in mind, do you think its too much to allow the drivers to use their better judgement when overtaking on the launch? Or do you have to make a rule that could create other problems too?

Just my two cents...

No problem to ease off a little on the acc when the slipstream sets at forth or fith gear. If passing isn't allowed all adapt to it.
Like it is now all is trying to gain something of others mistake and CHANGE LANE(s). That is what course the most accidents.
Of course you can't swear yourself free from all kinds of things you describes but imo it's more risky to allow this kind of passing.

FFS the races are never shorter then 6 hours!! Of course we all have to take it easy in the start, that goes for Mooney as well!!

Quote from PaulC2K :

N1yln, instead of applying the brakes, why didnt you make any attempt to overtake Casper? There was plenty of room there.

[x] You have seen another start than i did. Where was room for a safe maneuvre in the first lap of a 6 hour race? I havent seen space and therefor he braked...

Sorry Paul, but that's still your teamies fault, he changed line and he didnt react to the race situation.

Yeah, we dont have to talk about the mistakes done by others, but the one who caused the crash, is your teammate, sorry...

Quote from Vykos69 :

[x] You have seen another start than i did. Where was room for a safe maneuvre in the first lap of a 6 hour race? I havent seen space and therefor he braked...

Sorry Paul, but that's still your teamies fault, he changed line and he didnt react to the race situation.

Yeah, we dont have to talk about the mistakes done by others, but the one who caused the crash, is your teammate, sorry...

Ok I wasn't gunna post but FYI Paul left Mercury a good while ago and from what i've read he is more annoyed that the full blame is being put on me, rather than the proceeding events to the crash.

It was really Lastpunisher that broke and steered to the left into Nyl1n -- causing him to brake. So it beats me why LP was even doing that At that moment when he steered to the left, Bawbag wanted to keep up with a slipstream I imagine... perfectly normal.

But yeah, you guys say this is perfectly avoidable, I'd like to see you in his position Mr Perfect.

Lock the thread?

Why lock it, others don't want to think anything other than it being Bawbag's fault, so we contest to that. Having us being put off like this and being marked with the dunce cap is insulting :dunce:

Even when people say the preceding events before the collisions are "mistakes by others"... yet it still is our fault.

But the most important thing from all this is the starting procedure. Some have even said NOT to change the starting procedure?!?!?! And we are disappointed to hear that even... Because we fully support a start that is more organized and would not create so much confusion. The admins say they will work on this, but as for the people not agreeing to that just makes this all a world of "chance" when these races start... because some people don't seem to give a crap.

Quote from n1lyn :

Ok, i had to break which is unusual in this situation, but still u came to the left without really takin enough care. first corner does not win the race, did never, and will never ever. take care next time, i think the penalty is quite fair.

I don't think we are bugged about our Stop/Go penalty anymore, what we've been contesting about is why the other could've had a penalty for either Jumping the start and/or Driving faster than 80km/h and braking unknowingly. Only to make it FAIR for US getting a penalty while the other who indeed created this whole mess in the first place should get a penalty too. That is FAIR.

nope, i wanna see blood at first... it was a weird incident. we all can clearly see bawbags car move into nils´. that´s why i think the penalty is justified, although i really asked myself what these throttle-brake-games of some (or one?) car in front should effect...

Quote from Vykos69 :

[x] You have seen another start than i did. Where was room for a safe maneuvre in the first lap of a 6 hour race? I havent seen space and therefor he braked...

Sorry Paul, but that's still your teamies fault, he changed line and he didnt react to the race situation.

Yeah, we dont have to talk about the mistakes done by others, but the one who caused the crash, is your teammate, sorry...

For the record, that comments was purely going off an overhead vid i did (cos i cba reloading the replay cos i cant rewind that) but there looked to be room on the left of casper, maybe the grass cuts soon the stripped area, i just see room for a car on the left there and then, i dont know about it being a viable move, it was just something i kept wondering as i watched the clip rather than an accusation or owt. If that space wasnt there then fair enough, i just keep asking myself why slow down when there appears to be room as the race had gone green (even if certain people werent taking note of this!)

I still say its unfair to blame the entire thing on 1 driver, whether braking under green which helped cause this mistake is punishable or not, it just seems wrong that the whole thing is blamed on 1 driver when only an idiot would suggest that it wasnt because of surrounding incidents (which supposedly ARE punishable, but whatever) which were where Bawbag made the mistake of trying to get behind a car which is about to put on the brakes, im sure had he predicted this he'd have took the right route as he'd have had the mark on the lot of you and easily had P1 before the first corner, Casper braked when he didnt need to, Punisher did the same on a lesser scale, though im guessing he was paying more attention to Caspers actions than the 'Green!' message because he had nobody ahead to be forced to slow down, N1yln braked cos Casper did and he couldnt go right as Punisher was there, so had BB gone right and you lot were stupidly caught up in Caspers 'lets brake under race conditions' excercise then he'd have been clean past everyone.
But hey, thats hind-sight for you, Bawbag cant bend time, neither can he save Westhill from impending disaster, maybe people confuse him with Hiro from Heroes, but sadly not the case here.

The accident was caused by Bawbag, thats clear to see from anyones replay, what i disagree on is the fact that all blame for the entire thing is put onto his head, the actions of others in this event are ignored and not questioned, its just been a classic witch-hunt to find someone to blame for the multi-car pile-up and then brush it under the carpet and ignore everything else.
I still dont see why we have the lead car braking needlessly, clearly if he wasnt typing 'wtfg*' he might have noticed the race was underway instead of braking and slowing from 77mph to 63-64mph under the green flag, had he not jump-started moments earlier he wouldnt have confused the pack, accelerating way above the 50/80 limit before braking to get back to the correct speed, and IMO its those wreckless actions by the front car not paying full attention and too busy typing that caused the ripples which eventually were where Bawbag made a mistake, and im pretty damn sure had Bawbag not done it then there were about 10 cars behind that would have because of these actions.

The punishment is given, theres no going back on that, and if Bawbags actions truely deserve that punishment, then theres little that can be said on that, and im not sure the folks in Mercury are disputing this, what isnt going down well is other peoples part in a very disorganised race start, and why those actions (some which are clearly highlighted as punishable in the rules) arent being disputed is very harsh given what happened.

And for the record, Bawbag is a friend, not a teammate, hence the lack of (V) or anything Mercury related in my (non-existant) sig anymore as i left Mercury about 3 weeks ago, but eitherway, while his actions ultimately were the final factor in what caused the pile-up, he was not the only person guilty of wrong-doing in those events, but apparently there actions arent up for discussion, whether its rule-breaking, dangerous driving or bad organisation from above, however all blame is being put firmly on his head, and i believe that is very wrong.

Its just a shame everyone is so eager to pass blame onto 1 person rather than look at the whole event and see many mistakes made resulting in the main one which caused the mess. Had those mistakes not happened, there could have been a clean and much more exciting race rather than losing 2 leading cars through damage and penalties. Thats not saying bawbag goes scott free after the incident, its just saying others were also present and didnt help matters, and seem quite happy to just sweep the blame onto Bawbag rather than take responsibility as Bawbag has for his part. Casper seemed to have accepted his part, though im not sure if that stands, his teammates though were eager to ignore his comments and throw blame eitherway, the organisers chose to ignore bad organisation as a factor despite admitting it was a terrible start, and clearly people dont seem to have any compasion towards the fact that Bawbag got caught up in the events around him, thats what winds me up. i dont expect people up in arms about his punishment and whatnot, just some understanding of the events that took place opening 5 seconds of a race (aok, about 3sec before, 2 sec into), but apparently thats too much to ask for which is rather disappointing in my opinion.