New S1 support in Test Patch U25 and onwards...

I'd like to make a general request to hosters, that if your host is limited to S1 content, please can you start it in S1 mode if possible? S2 users with test patch U25 can now see S1 hosts in their list of S2 games.

S1 users can now upload skins at LFS World and the skin download feature now works in S1 mode.

It will be good to have some active S1 hosts again. The old S1 license, still owned by several thousand people, will again have some value. Unexpectely, at S2's release, S1 activity went to almost zero and there have been many comments from S1 users, how they could never find anyone online. This was not our intention, and I hope this new S1 improvement will help.

When there are a few more S1 hosts in the list, I'll make an announcement in the main forum section, so S1 users will get to know about the changes. It will also be stated in a mail shot when Patch V is released but I'm just trying to get this started gradually now that the feature is already available.

why don't you remove selecting which mode to host in, and merely say that if it's S1 content, the host is S1?

Quote from Jakg :

why don't you remove selecting which mode to host in, and merely say that if it's S1 content, the host is S1?

That's a good suggestion, actually, but it could pose a problem on user-selectable tracks. You might want to have a server that runs TBO on a choseable track, but if you start that server on SO Classic for example, it would jump into S1 mode and no S2 tracks could be selected. Though, you could check on each configuraton change what mode the server would be running in, always taking the "minimum" possible. If there's an S1 player connected and the track is changed to a S2 one you could either kick the S1 player, or disable the selection of S2 tracks overall, as long as a S1 player is connected. Not very clean solutions either way. :worried:

why don't you just remove S1/S2 hosts? make it hosts running S1/S2 combo's... make them spectate when a new track is selected that is S2...

Meh, I think that would be a very deep cut in the current license handling. I mean, it's possible, but is the amount of coding required in any relation to the benefit?

No request for code changes please. It's all been said before, I've considered all the possibilities, and I've done the one that I decided could be reasonably done, whatever the reasons.

I'm leaving hosts in control of their mode. This will work out fine if a few hosters around the world simply decide to run their host in S1 mode. There are over 450 S2 hosts running. I'm sure some of those could be changed to S1 mode.

Hmmm. Not sure how to respond to this request, Scawen.

We currently run two servers. A demo server and an S2 server - both public. We reason that the demo server should attract people to LfS and then, hopefully, upgrade to S2 and join us on our S2 server. You appear to be suggesting that running S1 servers could do the same.

S1 license holders have already decided they liked LfS so bought the S1 license. I'm sure that if they were aware what a fantastic job has been done with S2 then they would be upgrading. But you say there are several thousand S1'ers out there *not* upgrading. Why? Because they don't know what they're missing - literally. So why not let them see?

Could you produce a server software drop that gives full S2 access to both S1 and S2 license holders? If so, then you could run a promotion for a limited period allowing S1'ers to sample the delights of S2. At the end of the promotion the server is pulled and, if they've got any sense, the S1'ers buy S2 licenses.

I'm sure there are communities like ours out there that would be willing to donate servers for the promotion as it benefits everyone.

Quote from OldBloke :

Could you produce a server software drop that gives full S2 access to both S1 and S2 license holders?

No, I can't. Programming wise, I've already done what I'm going to do, and I'm not going to do any more on this subject.

One reason why the S1 license holders haven't upgraded is because they've probably downloaded S2, unlocked, clicked online and said "Oh right, no one online - that's crap" or "Hmm, LFS online is dead, it's like a ghost town here" and so haven't even got to try out the new S2 updates. Also they feel the £12 they paid is now useless. So why pay another £12 - they might think it'll go the same way.

Anyway, in your case, you only have a demo and a S2 one, you can't really run a S1 one as well. I'm not asking for anyone to run a new host.

All I'm saying is this :

If any hosters have a server which is currently running S1 content, please change the line in setup.cfg /mode=S2 to /mode=S1 and restart the host. It's OK, S2 users will still see the host and can join it!

For example, TBO at Blackwood - it does not need to be in S2 mode.
Or... XFG / XRG rallycross - it does not need to be in S2 mode.

That's all I'm saying. I'm not offering to start coding new solutions to the S1 to S2 upgrade path.

Maybe it's a good idea to send an LFS email to all Users that have only an S1 account, so they will know that it makes sense to actually go online again

I'm sorry that I can't change our ZT server to S1 mode because it's also used for leagues (GTR cars mostly) and it would be annoying to change it all the time. (time, which I dont have anyways )

Quote from Scawen :

Anyway, in your case, you only have a demo and a S2 one, you can't really run a S1 one as well.

Errr. Yes we could. We *only* run two LfS servers because we choose to.

Quote from Scawen :

All I'm saying is this :

If any hosters have a server which is currently running S1 content, please change the line in setup.cfg /mode=S2 to /mode=S1 and restart the host. It's OK, S2 users will still see the host and can join it!

Sounds simple but it still puts the onus on us server admins to make the change and then remember to change it back when we want to run S2 content. There's no incentive for us to do this as there's plenty of S2 racers to go round. The incentive is all yours.

Apologies for suggesting ways for you to help your own customers.

S1 is a vicious circle because the lack of servers means there are no racers which means nobody will run an S1 server because it won't get used. Basically the whole process needs a kick start. Unfortunately this can't be the S1 racers, since they need at least some servers to join to show the other server admins there are S1 racers about. In short, this is all about server admins doing their bit for the community and bringing more people back to the land of the light.

Quote from OldBloke :

Sounds simple but it still puts the onus on us server admins to make the change and then remember to change it back when we want to run S2 content. There's no incentive for us to do this as there's plenty of S2 racers to go round. The incentive is all yours.

Well, loading a text file and changing a 2 into a 1 and restarting a host really takes less than a minute. There isn't really any incentive required, so I am not going into incentives. My first post was just a simple request. "If your host has S1 content, please run it in S1 mode". It's not a really big deal. I've had to say now in two posts on this thread, that I am not going to spend any time doing more coding for S1 / S2 compatibility. I've spent enough time already making the S1 hosts available to S2 users, in the list of games, and Victor and I have enabled the skin downloading system for S1 hosts, so there is no "problem" now with S1 hosts. And that's as far as we are going to go.

Quote from ORION :

Maybe it's a good idea to send an LFS email to all Users that have only an S1 account, so they will know that it makes sense to actually go online again

That's what I meant when I said we'd do a mail shot when patch V is released. And that's why I'm mentioning here to hosts to run S1 content hosts in S1 modes. As Bob Smith says, we just need a few hosts to make it worthwhile telling the S1 users that there are some hosts running.

Scawen, maybe if there was an admin command like /reinit S1 which would reinitalize the server in S1 mode, people would use S1 more.

Just a suggestion.

Just make LFS check on its own whether it's an S1 combo and make it available on its own. Problem solved, lol

That works too

Quote from dawesdust_12 :

Scawen, maybe if there was an admin command like /reinit S1 which would reinitalize the server in S1 mode, people would use S1 more.

Just a suggestion.

I'd been thinking the same, but I didn't dare post it because Scawen said "no requests for code changes".

Brave man, that Dustin bloke!

Well, it makes logical sense, even though Scawen posted "no code change requests", it seems like the best option. To extend on that idea, if a server has an S2 combo in its config, and /reinit S1 is ran, first look to see if there is a "hostS1.cfg" and if so, run that, and if not, go to defaults for car/track/people in server. To go from S1 to S2 after a /reinit S2, first look for a hostS2.cfg, if not, run default.

And then this popped into my head, why not have the ability to simply /reinit (<userdefine>.cfg) so typing /reinit main.cfg would restart and run main.cfg, where as /reinit S2.cfg would restart and run S2.cfg. Then a server could have many options, and it would eliminate some coding on your behalf Scawen?

Then why not combine the ideas, have a /reinit *.cfg which would allow you to specify which config to reinitalize it as, but then have a /reinit S1, /reinit S2, and /reinit demo which would reinitalize the server to the defaults for which ever mode (Cars, tracks, reduce or increase maximum cars).

Question (for information):

The answer is probably "NO", but here goes:

Is it possible to create a host where the track is SO1 (S1) and all (S1 + S2) cars are enabled. S1 licence holders could run S1 cars and S2 licence holders could run all cars...


Possible?

Almost certainly not, since the S2 cars on the S1 licensees computer would still be encrypted (I think).

I've been nice and changed my server to S1. I'm not too keen on the actual S2 content anyway, favourite tracks are all Fern Bay and cars are the TBO class & MRT, so i'll probably keep it in S1 mode all the time now.

Server: Heart of Racing (iB)

Also at the moment it's only an 11 slot server but will go up to 23 slots at the start of November.

S1 servers can't have 23 slots Kimi

Thats a shame. At least i'll save money by staying with my 11 slots.

Yes, that is the only remaining disadvantage of S1 mode. It is limited to 16 connections (including the host). That allows 15 player races on a dedicated host.

I have been investigating that restriction just now, and unfortunately, I can't change that in a compatible version.

I'll have to ask my host (500Servers) if he can do a 16 slot server for me then.

Anyway it's not that much of a disadvantage really as every 23 slot server i've joined is always a complete mess at turn one and the rest of the race is so spread out it gets very boring.

One of the Live-for-Speed.de servers is now running in S1 mode.

Edit: I've tested the server and played with two other S1 players, but no one else from S2 joined. Maybe it would be better to remove the "S1" beside the name in the serverlist so S2 players don't hesitate to join that host.