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teeembo
S3 licensed
Quote from michal 1279 :I see I really need to give more care to my Grand Prix Legend 65 ...

Yeah that was definitely an inspiration Smile

Quote from cuni :With the F67L with 400bhp, for mouse users, accelerating out of a corner you need to up shift to be at around 4000RPM just to avoid any rear spin.

I thought this would be difficult for mouse (and keyboard) drivers. Thanks for the setups - hopefully they will be a help for some people.

Thumbs up
teeembo
S3 licensed
Quote from turbofan :only downside is the standard setup, it is much too unstable, specially for casual drivers who just want a try

Thanks. You may be right but I have tried hard to make it as driveable as possible but these were high power / low grip cars and they were very tricky in real life, which is why they started experimenting with wings the following year.

I think anyone who sticks with it should learn to enjoy it - I am right in the groove and LOVE driving it!!!

teeembo
S3 licensed
Thanks for the nice comments guys!

Just the initial WIP version and I have a list of small things I want to improve but I am really happy with how it turned out.
teeembo
S3 licensed
Thanks! I will have a look at that when I do the next version. I guess it will all change with the new graphics that self shadow but I should be able to improve it for now. Thumbs up
teeembo
S3 licensed
Quote from Scawen :It would be great if someone had a go and reported if you find any issues. I hope to avoid any bug reports after 0.7E is released.

The Rim Editor appears to be working as intended. Thumbs up

Attacking Blackwood Historic Reversed
teeembo
S3 licensed
Always a challenge to get into the 12s! Rofl

teeembo
S3 licensed
Quote from Scawen :I think it needs some improvement.

This would really help me as well Smile

1) Would that work and does it add the needed flexibility?

I think it would work except currently you cannot add an alpha texture to the spoke.**

2) Are there issues with existing rims going wrong if the code is changed as above?

Maybe Uhmm but as you can't currently use alpha it will just affect shininess.

3) Is there a need for more texture pages in the spoke editor?

I think that would be very useful but not sure if worth loads of time now.

EDIT: YES. For what I want I need at least two - alpha for the rim and another (paint) for the centre.

4) Rim using mapping from spoke object seems a bit obscure - should it be made clearer in the editors?

Adding a box in the rim editor saying "Mapping Name (from Spoke Editor)" would make it clearer.


(** - Actually you can get an alpha into spoke editor and multiple pages if you model it seperately in the modeller and use "Import SRE")
Last edited by teeembo, .
teeembo
S3 licensed
Ah sorry! It is a wide rim Smile

Last edited by teeembo, .
teeembo
S3 licensed
Quote from Scawen :Grid size of 1mm helps with "snap to grid" function

If I set rear wheel style to "different" the grid for the rear rim editor is still 10mm and not 1mm (front = OK)
teeembo
S3 licensed
I am still working this but am holding off from a few things in the hope (not expectation Smile) of some improvements to the LFS editor wheel and suspension definition systems in the next couple of months.

Meanwhile, there is plenty to be getting on with ...

One example is that I have decided to offer two configurations to give a some choice and variety on the grid. Hopefully these small differences together with some well chosen colour schemes will make the action seem more realistic:-

Classic

Yellow Ducted Aero Screen / Red Steering Wheel / White and Chrome Exhaust

Generic

More Conventional Screen / Black Steering Wheel / Dark Grey Exhaust

teeembo
S3 licensed
Quote from UnknownMaster21 :Bug Report: AI in KY3R can't find pitstop properly in certain pitboxes, they seem to attempt stop between boxes. Also some of the vehicles still manages to get pitspeed penalty due accelerating too much., such as Formula US 93

Confirmed.

I saw this before when AI cars were damaged but thought it was that they couldn't brake with the damage but ...

Just tried a few 2 lap races with compulsory pit stop and (with my WIP mod) the majority of the AI overshoot the pit box and get disqualified.

Happened at WE, FE, KY and BL (0.7D44) but was OK at RO (although there was some contact).

I tried the same (WE) race with FZR and it was fine so it leaves me wondering if there is something I can do - how do they "know" the length of the car?
teeembo
S3 licensed
The worst (best Smile) one is going the other way coming off the dual carriageway towards the car park.

There is also Blackwood in the middle of the straight (both ways) and also before / after the finish line.

And of course also in South City coming from under the bridge (next to the main pit exit).
Last edited by teeembo, .
teeembo
S3 licensed
Bingo! Thumbs up

Seems fully sorted in the combos I have tried. Good stuff!!
teeembo
S3 licensed
Quote from Scawen :Seems like there's never an easy day when working with the AI code. Schwitz

Trying not to over post here but I'm sure I speak for the vast majority when I say that your efforts on this are greatly appreciated.

Also it seems to me that when the new physics and graphics are released there will be a sudden focus on LFS and the first thing that reviewers and YouTube Vloggers will do is jump into an AI race so it will be a downer if they all crash on the first corner. However if it is a better experience it should have a positive affect on your bank balance Big grin.

On a practical note, it seems to be a downhill braking problem so could there be a compensation factor for the incline? Also, if a human driver locked a wheel they would release the pressure and reapply the brake whilst perhaps taking a wider line - could this be simulated?

Just some thoughts ...
teeembo
S3 licensed
Quote from Flotch :Scawen : would it be possible to add back (in the time they were doing it I tend to remember...) the automatic blip for AI when downshifting ?

I think this would help as well Thumbs up
teeembo
S3 licensed
Quote from Scawen :Can you give specific examples of a race setup that is likely to reproduce this problem? I can then have a look in the debug version.

One example is Aston Cadet reversed where they brake downhill into the first corner. It seems they can't handle downhill braking as this happens elsewhere.

I have uploaded a WIP version of my new Lotus 49 mod in case you have time to use it (getting a skin ID was overdue anyway Smile) - I think this car is an ideal stress case for the AI as it is difficult to drive (in a fun way!).

These cars were hard to drive in-period and the 49 has a very rear biased weight distribution plus it is on Road Supers Big grin

teeembo
S3 licensed
For me with my mods, the AI are fine (not perfect) through the lap but the problems are in the braking area (my vintage cars are high power and low grip). They tend to brake too late and too hard. So they are racing well but then they all lock-up and spin / slide into each other. Maybe this is to do with estimating grip as discussed so maybe the new physics will fix it. As an interim could the ABS be enabled for the AI?
Work Continues
teeembo
S3 licensed
teeembo
S3 licensed
Some suggestions from my car development thread explained here:-

- Definable upright geometry (eg. lower length & upper length)
- Roll centre heights displayed on the suspension diagram
- Full 3D positioning of inner wishbone pivot points
- Oval / round selectable per tube
- Material selection for suspension tubes and eventually texturing
- Definable points that move with the upright in special draw (not just the default three)

And here:-

- A bigger range of movement for the disc offset
New sub-object type
teeembo
S3 licensed
Suggest a new sub-object that rotates with the nearest wheel but doesn't move with the suspension - explained further here.
Suspension
teeembo
S3 licensed
Uprights
Because I can only define "half upright length", it is not possible to replicate the 49's geometry where the front upright is very "top heavy" and the upper ball joint falls outside the brake disc diameter and the lower within the "cup".



Initially I thought this would only affect the physics in camber gains which I could recover in other ways. As I learned more I realise the bigger effect is in relative roll-centre heights which are critical to handling balance.

The obvious difference is graphical where the cowling on the body needs to be lower so I can't quite get the nose shape the same. And because I wanted the same KPI of 12 degrees (to keep a reasonable scrub radius) the lower ball joint sits within the actual disc. I have tried to hide it but it is a bodge!



I thought rear end would be less of a problem but the packaging is very tight around those exhaust headers!! (TBD)

Pivots
On this and other cars the rose-joints at the inner end of the wishbones are at different widths which is not an option in LFSE.



Correct 3D positioning of all suspension pivots would obviously have some physics implications. Graphically, there is a big impact in packaging in tight areas - in this case there is a lot going on with suspension arms, drive shafts, shocks, exhausts, all in close proximity. Luckily my shocks are invisible Smile

Tubes
Because some of the arms on the 49 are pressed and some are tubular it would be better if oval / round was selectable per tube.

It would be nice if material colours were available for the suspension arms eg. black / white / chrome or even better full textures.

Imagine if a thick tube could be added between thrust bearing and lower upright you could texture it with a spring and the whole thing would expand and compress as a simplified version of a coilover.

Additional
If you could define points in special draw that move with the upright then things like steering arms and anti-roll bars would be possible.

Improvement Suggestions
- (MAIN) Definable upright geometry (eg. lower length & upper length)
- Roll centre heights displayed on the suspension diagram
- Full 3D positioning of inner wishbone pivot points
- Oval / round selectable per tube
- Material selection for suspension tubes and eventually texturing
- Definable points that move with the upright in special draw (not just the default three)
Drive Shaft U/Js
teeembo
S3 licensed
The introduction of "Hub" sub-objects allowed me to define a shape to represent a rotating universal joint going into the rear uprights It is not perfect but looks good from behind when racing. Ended up as 78 triangles but I think it is worth it. Now if I had an object that rotated with the wheel but didn't move with the suspension then I could do the gearbox end. Wink



Improvement Suggestion
- A new type of sub-object that rotates with the wheel but doesn't move
Last edited by teeembo, .
Brake Discs
teeembo
S3 licensed
One of the distinctive features of this car, and prominent for the in-car view, is the inset brake discs. I wanted to replicate the vented design (even though the drivers apparently didn't like them!).

I couldn't use the LFS editor discs because the 49's disc are inset too much (circa. 130mm front and 190mm rear) so I needed a solution.

This was before Scawen made the "Hub" sub-object available but I am glad I didn't have that option otherwise I wouldn't have found this ...

I defined the disc faces as "Brake" sub-objects which do not rotate - this may seem counter-intuitive but it means that I could use an image of a real disc with all it's reflections and shadows which would have looked wrong rotating. The illusion of rotating is provided by the ventilation holes which I defined in the wheel "Spoke" definition. The result looks really good in action!!



As I further develop the car I intend to redraw the ventilation holes as "Hub" sub-objects and also create a disc _ALP to allow a metal overlay so that the discs reflect the environment.

Improvement Suggestion
- A bigger range of movement for the disc offset (even though I didn't use them)
F67L - A certain classic F1 car
teeembo
S3 licensed
After watching this video and then trying most of those games, physics were as unconvincing as I remembered (in different ways) so I thought LFS must be able to represent the car better.

It started with wrestling a coffin-shaped experiment around Blackwood, trying to get the right feeling. And then it snowballed ...

This is what it looks like so far.



I hope to use this thread as both a progress report and to contribute some improvement suggestions and their justifications. Hopefully at the end of it there will be a released car!
Public Release
teeembo
S3 licensed
Despite there still being many things to do I have the car in a good state and am happy for public release!

The car drives well and (IMHO) looks cool Big grinBig grinBig grin

Please vote it up and I'll see you on the track!!



Cheers,
T
FGED GREDG RDFGDR GSFDG