I'm not sure if this has been asked before but what other games do you play besides LFS?

For me I'm also currently playing:
Oblivion
Titan Quest
TestDrive Unlimited
Warcraft III

Pleeeeeezzzzzeeeee show me just two fairly different setup's with two fairly different racing lines where the total lap is almost identical - And not something at a smail's pace either. Do this then I'll be convinced I'll "Get it" and I'll take back everything I said and throw in a big fat apology!

Quote from J.B. :

What the? No it's not the fastest possible lap time. It's the fastest combined theoretical laptime from three drivers. Nothing more nothing less.

Exactly - I said by a human in a sim and you right it only theoretical but possible because each sector was setup by a human. And it won't be the absolute fastest theoretical should you have everything perfect!

Quote from geeman1 :

That would be the case IF the track would be only straigths and unconnected corners. But often tracks are not like that, corners are connected. The line you take on a corner effects what line you can take through the next.

So geeman1 of the 3 drivers who are only -lets say it again ONLY a 10th of a second difference between all of them - by your statement driver 1 can take a corner from the left driver 2 from the right and driver 3 well he can do it sideways in the middle and they will all in the end still been a 10 of a second apart - Now this may be possible if they never take the cars out of first gear and the total lap time is a 10th between them but pathetically slow. If you going to be setting up fastest lap times - WR stuff you are going to all follow very much the same line - same breaking points, very simular setups - or else you will never be that close or that fast.

Quote from Meanie :

There are setup choices and lines to be considered.
You're being a bit naive on this part.

Did you miss the part where I said "All thing equal" meaning that the setup is most likely the same or so simular that total lap time between each of them would be close and setup may be slightly different based on personal preference, racing line well you must of missed the second paragraph too.

3 drivers - 3 sectors each has a fastest time in one of the sectors. Total lap time difference between the drivers lets say is half a second or 2 tenths. Therefore each driver completed the lap took the best possible line most likely very very simular lines to each other. It's just that each one was a little better than the other in a sector - more confident in a particular corner - break a little later whatever. So if someone could do what each driver did in each sector you would have................................(need a drum roll) ....................That's right you guessed it ...... THE FASTEST POSSIBLE LAP TIME (by a human in a SIM)

kurent all thing equal - if drive A goes faster in sector 1 and driver B goes faster in sector B and then driver C goes faster in sector 3 again.

So if a driver could do exactly what each driver did in each sector to get the fastest sector then you would have the fastest lap time. There is no reason why anything has to be given away in one sector just to go faster in another.

The only time you would give away something in one sector for another is if your only goal is to do a fastest sector so for example if the sector ends close to a corner - go flat out and dont even plan to try make the corner because all what you want to do is get past that sector line as fast as possible and so what if you end up in the sand trap or smashing into the barrier you have setup a fastest sector time HUHA!!!

Last edited by Count Duckula, Sat, 14 Jul 2007 18:17.

yea it all started with "mr. duckicluck."

Another thing bad geekie boy just read ans7812 post and you hopefully should realise that it isn't a difficult thing to do and as ans7812 says it may not be the absolute fastest but it will the clostest we could possibly calculate. Which is then in theory the fastest because we can't calculate anything faster. And even though the SIM may not be a representation of real life it also has values for "15gr = (mph)^2"

Quote from dontsimon :

F1 teams have already been doing this for years. They use some form of simulation software (not driving for this purpose) to calculate braking points, optimum corner entry speed etc. Last season the UK F1 coverage had a short item showing Button's team reviewing the results.

IIRC the computer calculated best possible lap at Monaco for the Mclaren in 91 or 92 was actually beaten by Senna in his qualifying lap.

Yea that would be expected - in real life humans always manage to exceed what is theoretically possible - BUT if you were to apply the same calculations to a SIM you would arrive at what I originally asked a theoretically fastest lap for the game which I doubt a human could beat because it a SIM and not real.

evilgeek you have just demonstrated that the only nerd is you throwing up such unrealistic possibilities - Now naughtygeekboy if they can use computers to land planes and put space ships in space calculating the fastest lap in a sim is like farting in thunder.

I want to know how much S4 is going to cost !!!

Quote from garph :

Errr, yeah. We all know it's a game you don't really need to play the "oh it's just a game anyway" card.

I'd still rather try to beat another person and not the computer, that's kinda the whole point of the LFS!

A theoretically fastest speed would never be achieved by a human - its theoretical and it should never be beat because it is theoretically the fastest.

But you know what - I guess why they don't do it - just by the responses it would seem most people would loose or have no interest in playing the game should they have such information. And I'm sure the people who develop these games know this and that is why they don't make it known.

Guys just step back and think about this.
Take a track, would it be easy for the computer to determine the shortest route around the track which will give you a distance? I think we all agree yes it would! So now we have the shortest distance around the track lets determine for a specific car, what would be the fastest that car could cover that distance if it was a straight line. That means you need the best possible setup for acceleration and top speed – Would you say the computer could handle that? Yes I do.
So what do we have - distance and fastest time to cover that distance if it were a straight line. WOW we have a starting point!
The next step would be to take every corner and find out the best line to get through there the quickest and also the best setup to get through there the fastest.
Would you agree that just for one corner it shouldn’t be too difficult for a computer to determine the best line and setup?
Now we do that for every corner. And what we are left with is maybe a different setup for every corner – a setup if the distance was entirely straight and we also have the best possible line to take for each corner and when you stitch the best possible line for every corner together you have the best route around the track.
So all what really left to do is simulate each scenario you have for the entire track and with the combinations of setups you have – and it may lie between two setup’s but as it narrows down which setup is best for the entire track it can then try combinations that are in between two setups and see if it’s better or worse. The net result is after a few seconds processing this data on a 386 you will come up with a lap time that is theoretically the fastest around that track. – Not so difficult now was it. - just need a programmer to code it now

Last edited by Count Duckula, Fri, 13 Jul 2007 21:22.

Quote from Taavi(EST) :

Actually there should be a best possible lap on lfsworld according to the best splits uploaded, wr lap doesn't always have the best splits. I hope you get what i mean.

Yea I do much like what the do on F1 now days show the fastest sector time and what a possible lap time would be should a drive hook up all 3 sectors with the fastest achieved time - that would be also very interesting because it will show what is humanly possible - But I also like to know what is the absolute fastest time - its a simulation game - so I still can't see why it would be so difficult to simulate a fastest time. As someone else said the AI not perfect - so what then all you going to do is determine the fastest time for this programs not so perfect AI

I don't think any human would ever achieve it - so I don't think it takes the human out of it. Just the game it self takes the human out of real racing because it's just that - In real life when I lock up or slide around a corner I get a lot more feedback than just a force feedback wheel vibrating in my hand and noise in my ear's and a 2d screen displaying a 3d image of me slipping. When that happens in a sim I might be picking my nose, sipping coffee or scratching my balls what ever, - in real life I'll be swearing if it was a mistake, soil my pants if I hit the pavement or even if it seems like I'm going to hit the pavement or another car.

If anything it isn't impossible and I would think for the developers it would be easy to simulate and come up with the ultimate fastest lap -
Just think about it - All what the SIM is a bunch of variables well many of them - setup, tires, temp, fuel etc... and also your inputs accelerate, break, turn so based on the variables set for setup, tires, temp, fuel etc... and how fast you going when you break and how much you break how much you turn will determine if and how much you slip. Therefore if you know the boundaries of there variables which the developers do then coming up with a model that calculates the ultimate lap time is simple math’s

The complexity of the track is already known in the game and based of all your variables setup, fuel, temp tires etc.. and current speed, position on track, track conditions (bumps) the program knows exactly how to respond when you break, turn even to the point of putting down tyre marks - and it does this for every bit of the track - stating that the calculations would be very intensive implies that playing the game there would be very intensive calculations and almost impossible to play - yet we all play quite easily with not so high end machines and it runs fine.

And why would I want to know - Perfection - how close can we get to perfection - isn't that what we strive for in most things in life and it nice to know how far off the mark we are.

Last edited by Count Duckula, Fri, 13 Jul 2007 20:03.

Geeses - now I'm confused the only sim I was playing before LFS was Test Drive Unlimited ? Oh well maybe I've been staying up too late playing and that all I dream of.

Hi All,

Now I not sure but I think it was in LFS where you can view the best racing line by means of a green line on the road that you have to follow.
IF there is this in LFS how do you switch it on and off.

Thanks

Guys Thank you all for the advise - I guess I need to practice and get right what you say.

Quote from battle :

I can help you out with becoming faster with the BF on Aston National. Only done 63 laps but my pb is a 1.23.41, just pm and we can might meet up at a server and i'll give you some tips.

Thanks I'll take you up on your offer I'll pm you when next I'm on proberly soon just after I've gone through the forum

Ok Guys here is my raf and the WR raf to compare and yea I can see where he is faster but the speed he's carrying through the 1st corner seems almost impossible???

Hi all and thank you for all the replies - Troy thank you for answering the spr question - I'll do that as soon as I get home this evening. I'll also post my fastest raf file here so you guys can have a look at it.
BTW my best time is 1:29x

theirishnoob vbmenu_register("postmenu_474087", true); comment about fps makes sense however I think my rig is powerful enough - Pentium 3.4, 2GB Ram, nVidia 7800 but I'll check my fps out too.

mrodgers vbmenu_register("postmenu_474119", true); it also didn't take me too long to get 1.29.xx but when guys are clocking 1.24.xx and the WR is 1.21.xx that's a whole 5 & 8 seconds difference.

son-of-satan vbmenu_register("postmenu_474164", true); the thing is I do spin out or lock up the moment I try brake a fraction later or try carry just a little more speed through the corner?

Shotglass vbmenu_register("postmenu_474171", true); I'll post one tonight. - What I have picked up when spectating is that I brake way to early compared to others for example I'll hit the breaks at about the 100 meter mark while others hit it after the 50 meter mark and when I try that -BANG into the barrier Maybe as sam1600 says the fast guys have done some hex-editing and that's why they are able to stop so quickly ???

Quote from troy :

you sure you took the right car, maybe you accidentally hopped in a super aguri

serious answer:

practice, you cant expect to be as fast as racers who do that combo for months or years and got like 1000 laps already
if your interested in details you could also download some world record hotlaps and compare them to your driving with a telemetry tool

links:
http://www.lfsworld.net/?win=hotlaps&whichTab=wrs
http://en.lfsmanual.net/wiki/Telemetry


have fun and good luck getting faster

edit: a replay of your driving for people to look at is always good also

Thanks all for the replies - I've download some hot laps which the files have a .spr extension however the telemetry tools F1perview and AnalyzeForSpeed both require .raf files so how would I use the hotlap files ?

Hi All,

I've been racing single & multi AS-Nat, BF1 and my best time is 1:29:something but the top guys there clock 1:24:something. - I even asked one of them for his car setup which he gave me yet I was worse. For the life of me some corners I can't leave the breaking any later and the moment I give a pinch more gas comming out the corner I end up spinning - I'm on the raggard edge so how do they do it? BTW the top hot lap is 1:21:something - what am I missing??

Hi All, Is there any where I can get replay files *.raf - specifically for AS Nat track and the BF1 along with the setup file *.set - I what to see how different I drive compared to someone else - and how different the car's are setup. Using F1PrefView or AnalyzeForSpeed it will show me when I brake and how much speed I carry through the corner etc... to other drivers.