changing topic a little bit.

so up to now still absoblutely no one are calling for a rule change of why should a drive through and a stop/go, if handed down after the race is finished, are both worth exactly 25seconds~? surely something should be done about this~?

Why? A stop go is roughly a 25 second penalty.

Quote from Intrepid :

If Kimi was investigated for his off track advantage gaining, along with other drivers (Trulli cut the chicane several times according to witnesses gaining valuable time), then Hamilton being punished would at least have been CONSISTENT and more 'acceptable'.

The fact no other drivers were investigated for similar, if not the same offences make it a somewhat harder pill to swallow.

If the FIA deemed Hamilton gained an advantage from what he did, then so did SEVERAL other drivers on the same day! Are you suggesting that it is justified that these drivers were not investigated?

He wasn't penalised for gaining an time advantage, he was penalised for not relinquishing an overtake fully and completely that was initially gained by needlessly cutting a chicane.

As for other people cutting chicanes, have you checked their sector/lap times with the cut? I'd wager they were slower. As they LOST time and did not gain a position then why penalise them? Hamilton gained time and a position. That is the crucial difference...

Quote from Doorman :

I don't know why you're all getting so worked up about it. It's not a sport, it's an entertainment!

Quite the most prescient comment here. In the previous thread someone mentioned that were F1 to be serious about the sporting side of its business, then it wouldn't allow the pressure of the TV schedule to declare a winner until the stewards decisions were properly ratified.

The very simple answer to all this is that Hamilton deserved a penalty according the rules, but the rules have been applied in such a way as to warp the final outcome of the race quite absurdly.

F1 is entertainment, I just don't think its very funny subjecting everyone to this kind of bureaucratic nonsense.

They have held appeals about the exact same penalty in the past, so this stinks to high hell of a veto because they know the evidence is against them, and they don't want to reverse the stewards decision.

Citations?

I would of liked Mclaren to have won the appeal but what difference is it really going to make to our lives? Yes I am a Hamilton fan but isn't it a bit stupid to keep on bickering about Hamilton, or anything that includes him? This seems to happen in every thread about F1. Can't we just let it go and actually see why he did get penalised etc... Next time Hamilton is just got to make sure he gives the place back to him and give back the advantage.
I do think if he Hamilton stayed behind Kimi through the first corner and not out braked him and overtook him after the corner, you wouldn't have got penalised, would he?

I think we should put this to rest now and wait and see who wins in Singapore, I do wish that Hamilton wins the Championship this year though. I think we should all stop the bickering about or around Hamilton etc... There is things that happen in day to day life what we dont like but we get on with it, yes we are entitled to debate on the situation but it normally ends up in a flame war or a arguement, I know I can be the worse for doing this but I am beginning to see there isnt a point in a causing a arguement.

There is rules in the sport which have to be followed, the penalty that Hamilton recieved is the equivilent (<-- Dont know if it is spelt right) to a drive through penalty, it has happened now and Hamilton is concentrating on the next GP, Singapore, why cant we?

I wonder how much bickering there will be if Hamilton wins the World Championship this year? I am staying out of it though.
I have stated my view and I would of liked Hamilton to of had his points and victory given back to him but he just got the equivilent to a drive through penalty.

Build bloody massive concrete walls, telegraph poles and small houses within a few feet of the edge of the track.

Thats why there was never any problems with corner cutting back in the days of Jim Clark.

Quote from sam93 :

...

how in the name of all that is holy did you manage to write a full half page (on my screen) post without mentioning any relatives?

Quote from 5haz :

Build bloody massive concrete walls, telegraph poles and small houses within a few feet of the edge of the track.

Thats why there was never any problems with corner cutting back in the days of Jim Clark.

well there was but them being gentlemen instead of spoiled brats they stayed for a cup of tea after driving through someones living room which clearly eliminates the advantage
although i guess if mclaren had been more competitive in the days the fia would have found a way to penalise them for excessive amounts of caffeine in the bloodstream

Quote :

Build bloody massive concrete walls, telegraph poles and small houses within a few feet of the edge of the track.

Thats why there was never any problems with corner cutting back in the days of Jim Clark.

In fairness there was something of a problem with debris in the track though.

Sandtraps aren't the be all and end all either, they cause the cars to roll and the airbox can dig in resulting in the drivers head having a far greater chance to impact against the ground.

I dont think we can blame the drivers for using the run off when it is given to them, but given the choice i'd rather have tracks where the drivers will have a go and fail than watch them live cautiously for 78 laps.

Quote from Intrepid :

Let's say Hamilton's DNF happened on lap 1. That would classify him in 20th.

Cars that do not complete 90% of race distance are not classified.

Quote from 5haz :

Build bloody massive concrete walls, telegraph poles and small houses within a few feet of the edge of the track.

Thats why there was never any problems with corner cutting back in the days of Jim Clark.

Yeah, I loved the days when a car would go off track, hit a fence and the fence would decapitate the driver. You just don't get that nowadays

Quote from PLAYLIFE :

Yeah, I loved the days when a car would go off track, hit a fence and the fence would decapitate the driver. You just don't get that nowadays

Hah, well theres nothing nice about fatal accidents, but maybe it would make todays drivers think twice about making a hair-brained move.

And then Hamilton would have gone into the wall, and the race would have been decided on the track rather than in a court room.

Strategically placed walls should be put into chicanes so that they pose no danger, but mean that a car must turn round a bit in order to get back on track.

Also perhaps a fairly large 'strip' of grass between the track edge and the tarmac runoff would do the trick perhaps.

AHHHHH!!! WALLS OF TEXT!!!!

The whole deal is stinks , to quote Monty Python "Your making up the rules as you go along"

Imho it appears the penalty was to make the championship artificially close and probably would have happened to any of the drivers in contention at some stage if there were a noticeable points difference.

Conspiracy theory ? maybe so but it seems these things happen all to often.


Btw Webber fanboi here , grrrr at Loois for punting my man :chairs:

Quote from Shotglass :

how in the name of all that is holy did you manage to write a full half page (on my screen) post without mentioning any relatives?

Lol, well none of my family have done racing apart from me, but I did motorcross, obviously a lot different from F1. I only use relatives as examples as they have done/experienced certain things which makes it easier to write about as you know a lot about them etc... Thats the only reason I will use them as examples. I have learnt from my mistakes though and cant be bothered to bicker and have childish stupid arguements with people on the internet and having a arguement with someone over nothing, pointless in my opinion.

Quote from Shotglass :

wouldnt it be simpler that its business and the fia shaft anyone whos winning regardless of his cars colours?
also how much longer till we get to the point where bernie and ferrari get more business by conspiring with george bush fly planes into the wtc and blame it all on bin laden who somehow finances mclaren?

Not forgetting that 'special deal' Luca gave Bernie on a little white Fiat Uno..


Yeah, late i know, but i not been on for a couple of days. Anyway, onto Singapore and some more Hamilton bashing no doubt.

Quote from 5haz :

Build bloody massive concrete walls, telegraph poles and small houses within a few feet of the edge of the track.

Thats why there was never any problems with corner cutting back in the days of Jim Clark.

+1 for going back 40 years technology/safety wise. They'd think twice before diving up the inside again wouldn't they?

Quote from DavidSco :

+1 for going back 40 years technology/safety wise. They'd think twice before diving up the inside again wouldn't they?

Well I was exaggerating just a bit.

But seeing as cars now are no longer basically very fragile fuel tanks on wheels, I think if we grassed over the parts of the tarmac runoff areas closest the track, perhaps that would cause drivers to spin if they tried to cut the track.

Also there are very few corners in F1 now where that separate men from boys, now that Eau Rouge is flat and Maggots and Beckets at Silverstone will soon be gone.

Perhaps if tracks were a little more 'daunting' then drivers wouldnt go quite so mad, there should be more opportunities for mistakes: off cambers and nasty bumps and crests. This combined with the expected increase in the reliance on mechanical grip would mean that some people will get better runs out of corners than others, leading to an increase in overtaking perhaps.

I dispise tracks that are built to a certain 'formula', they should follow the contours of the land just like many older tracks do.

I've just recieved the following spam email (why the hell did I sign up for live timing in the first place, they don't need my e-mail address for it!?)

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Quote from duke_toaster :

I've just recieved the following spam email (why the hell did I sign up for live timing in the first place, they don't need my e-mail address for it!?)

Got a Ferrari? Not quite good enough at driving? Are other boys outclassing you in the wet?

Then you need:
Ferrari International Assistance (FIA)

This exclusive Ferrari only membership club has many benefits including:

Anti overtaking assurance
Been overtaken? Feel a bit silly? Don't worry, we'll throw 'em out even if it embarrassingly obvious that they didn't gain an advantage.

Guaranteed world championship?
Had a crash? Need to win the world championship? Don't worry just limp across the track and take off your nearest championship title contender - we'll do the rest.

A bit strapped? Need extra cash?
Simply get one of your team to tell someone else how you make your cars. We'll guarantee a $100,000,000 windfall so that the rich get richer!

Exhaust falling off your car? Looking a bit dangerous?
At Ferrari International Assistance we operate a "blind eye" policy just for Ferrari drivers.

Been a bit silly? Taken off another driver whilst following the safety car?
It's OK, as long as you didn't hurt yourself. I mean, who are Force India anyway? And how dare they be in front of you!

A bit bored? Want some extra action?
With FIA plus you can take part in a number of additional membership activities including the popular "Kill Your Pit Crew" and "Photocopy Extreme Racer" games.

Not sure when you might need us next?
Relax. Check out our track record. We're confident that we'll be able to make something up on the spot that will get you out of any pickle that you might find yourself in.

But wait, there's more!

[B]Order our FIA plus pack and receive [U]exclusive access[/U] to our Nazi style orgies - with an Allo Allo style accent kit available at specially discounted price![/B]

Federation International d'Automobile - Making the rules up as we go along since 1904

Hahaha gotta love spam e-mail

Hahah, that's just bitter fanboy nonsense, but still rather amusing.

Now that Ferrari have been given some kind of penaulty, all the fanboys will probrably shut up now.

Wouldn't it be lovely if a championship could be decided by the driver's skill and the car's design, not buy the officials instinct.