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Remastering Music
(18 posts, started )
#1 - CSU1
Remastering Music
Hi all, I start this thread in hope to gain/share some knowledge about music samples and working with them.

I'm not interested in music mixing or making songs, more rebuilding and remastering old songs and music samples.

First off, I use Linux, and at the moment only use open source software. I have come across many applications that seem to offer a wide range of tools but most are geared tword mixing or have very few filters for dealing with the basis of the sample itself such as actual bit-rate and frequency.

I will explain my problems, My father backed up his music collection a couple of years back from his damaged CD's using the FLAC container.

In total there is about 3gb of music which sounds awfull, but, I find that if I decompress into WAV the sound is improved tenfold, but so is the size.

3gbites of FLAC has now become over 70gbites which is just too large to be practical with songs that were ~12mb in size now being ~120mb?

The sound quality difference has me baffled, listening to one particular song in WAV format I can clearly hear instruments and notes that were not there when played in compressed format, I understand how frequency's work, i dont understand how uncompressing the song has results like this, as if some act of magic has happened and notes and instruments just appear!...

If this is the case with compressed formats I also do not understand why media players dont uncompress or buffer songs as they play?

My main question here is about actual bit-rate/frequency, How does one tell the actual rate of a sample and not just what the container reads it to be?

If I understood this I could go ahead and compress these files back to the origional recorded bit-rate.

Suggestions/thoughts please.
#2 - Migz
Im not sure on your question, but why dont you just convert the converted .wavs down to .mp3 meybe itll go back to a small size and still have the same quality?
Sounds like whatever you're using to play the FLAC files has trouble playing them properly.
#4 - halo
AFAIK, there are lossless and lossy conversions in audio world.
ie. mp3 is one of a lossy conversion format. I am using "ape" format for converting wav files to lossless format to save size. When you convert an "ape" file (Monkey's Audio) to wav, you can have the same file but when you convert a mp3 file to wav you never have the same wav file that you converted to mp3 before. Because some parts of the song are not squized, they are just kept out of the new mp3 file. And those parts can never gain back.

Lossless conversion is very much like the zipping a file. You dont lost any data. Lossy conversion is much like bmp to jpeg conversion, you lost a great deal of data but save size. Thats why when a mp3 file (especially low bit rate) converted back to wav, final file is not satisfactory most of us for listening on a quality music system.

But at the same time, its difficult to say when you hear a song and if the playing song's file whether wav or mp3 when mp3 file bit rate is above 300 kbps. You need a pair of very very sensitive ear to separate hi-bitrate mp3 and wav.
Quote from Migz :Im not sure on your question, but why dont you just convert the converted .wavs down to .mp3 meybe itll go back to a small size and still have the same quality?

Your theory would be correct in most cases, the converter has probably removed unwanted frequency ranges, much like the Dolby button on old cassette players removed the hiss. Why convert a frequency we don't like or want if it is only going to make the file bigger? It could also be that its not the Wav files that are good quality but the flak files or player that are of poor quality. I think you have been lucky. Go convert them to mp3 and see what happens

I think I already know whats going to happen!
#6 - CSU1
Im using the standard gnome Movie Player to listen to all files through ALSA on mobile realtek card


FLAC sounds right but no where near full uncompressed WAV

...maybe I explained my problem bad

ok, never mind FLAC for a moment.

using Soundconverter

I convert a WAV to MP3@128kps it sounds rubbish because the bit-rate (rate per second a sample is taken) is lower...correct?...so data has been lost and impossible to uncompress as other frequencies were'nt recorded in the process of conversion(or maybe I've grasped the whole bit-rate conversion/compression thing wrong )

If I then convert the 128kps.mp3 back to WAV the result is an uncompressed WAV made from a compressed origional, a dudd.

How do I read the frequency an LP was recorded at, or how do I read the frequency an uncompressed WAV was recorded at?
Quote from CSU1 :I convert a WAV to MP3@128kps it sounds rubbish because the bit-rate (rate per second a sample is taken) is lower...correct?

Bit rate is not the same as the sample rate. It would be quite difficult to represent a sample with one bit.

Quote from CSU1 :How do I read the frequency an LP was recorded at, or how do I read the frequency an uncompressed WAV was recorded at?

LPs are analog, they have no sample rate.
Quote from wheel4hummer :LPs are analog, they have no sample rate.

I think he meant what frequency were they converted to not from. I could be wrong.
Quote from Psysim :I think he meant what frequency were they converted to not from. I could be wrong.

If that is the case, it is still not necessarily possible to tell. If the original conversion has been re sampled a few times then you can't tell.
I think he still has the original versions. CSU1, would this be the case?

EDIT: I said versions and meant conversions
What Wav quality / bit rate / freq are you decompressing into? Because I'd imagine an average song should be about 30-50mb, not 120mb.
#12 - CSU1
Quote from dontsimon :What Wav quality / bit rate / freq are you decompressing into? Because I'd imagine an average song should be about 30-50mb, not 120mb.

From FLAC to WAV, actual bitrate of music is unknown, im using soundconverter as linked to above maybe soundconverter is bloating the FLAC format...i'll try another conversion tool later for comparison.

Quote from Migz :Im not sure on your question, but why dont you just convert the converted .wavs down to .mp3 meybe itll go back to a small size and still have the same quality?

Have done, converted them to .mp3@320kps and sound is good but the fact that it sounds good is not good enough I need to know actual recorded bit-rate of sample so i'm not left with an over-bloated compression...
Something very weird is happening here, as FLAC is a lossless format (hence it's possible to create the good sounding WAVs from it), so I'd agree kith Kegetys that something wrong is going on when they get decoded. I'm also very surprised that the FLACs are under a tenth of the size of the WAV files? I'm lucky to get down to 60% of the original. I suppose it depends what sample and bitrate of WAV you are decoding to (perhaps higher than the original FLAC' as has been alluded to?).

Quote from wheel4hummer :Bit rate is not the same as the sample rate. It would be quite difficult to represent a sample with one bit.

You say that but there is a true digital audio fromat, that only uses 1 bit per sample. It works on the theory that the driver still takes time to move from one extreme to another, so by pulsing the driver to one extreme and back fast enough, it will end up with smooth motion and recreate your analogue signal. It needs a much higher sample rate to work though, something around 100MHz IIRC.
if you want a properly modern professional remastering you should try using octave with this simple script (i hope it supports all these matlab commands)


function = remaster(wavfilename)
[data,FS,NBITS]=wavread(wavfilename);
data= data.*10;
for i=1:lenght(data)
if data(i) > 1
data(i) = 1;
end
end
remasterfilename = [wavfilename , 'remastered.wav'];
wavwrite(data,FS,NBITS,remasteredfilename);

save as remaster.m and enjoy... rant courtesy of zeeall
I take it that's a dig at modern volume levels, achieved by excess (dynamic range) compression and clipping?
it is indeed
This loudness war thing is kinda crap. They add extra loudness to each album to make it sound superior than the last.

Superiorly crap i guess....
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(CSU1) DELETED by CSU1 : sowwwy
#18 - CSU1
For whom it may or may not concern here is a super little open source application I've come across with quite a few bells and whistles for the novice.

afaik Windows version is avail.

reZound

Remastering Music
(18 posts, started )
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