One of the bigest complaints I have with LFS is in reguards to these objects and how they behave in LFS. Most of them feel much heavier then they should be, react strangly when struct and have the ability to cause as much havoc or more then they are designed to prevent.

Traffc cones, pilons and corner markers are mearly visual clues for drivers. They are very light weight and should have little to no impact on a car, yet in LFS they can very easily upset a car to the point where they will poose traction of be turned. This needs to me fixed as they often find their way on to the racing surface. They need to be reduced in weight to the point where they do not affect car handeling if struct.

The bigger issue though I feel is the tires. The way they react is realistic but they use is not done in a safe way. These have been placed on the track to encourage drivers to not cut the corners, I can only asume they will at some point be replaced with propper cutting penalty system and be removed from the track. Until then though I feel a change needs to me made to them for the safty of as all. A way needs to be implimented to keed tire stacks off the roar surface. The most sencible in my mind is to teather them togeather and anchor the tire furthest fromt he track surface. If hit then they will rotate around the anchored tire in the direction they were hit but will not be able to roll on to the track surface to pose a hazard to following drivers.

Now that's a good point

I hate the way the tyres scatter all over the place. Many times I've had a race ruined by someone I'm chasing slamming through a tyre wall and leaving them all over the place, which either makes me hit them, or hit something or someone else (or get hit by someone else) while trying to avoid them. I've seen people knock them onto the track on purpose too - which is fine in a fun scratch race but can get on your nerves if you're racing seriously.

I can see the point in using tyres as a temporary corner-cutting prevention measure for now, but I hope in future that proper cut-detection will see the tyres removed from apexes, and they'll be used as they are in RL - as shock absorbers for poor hapless goons like me

anyone see some of the endurance racing weekend on motors?

can remember if it was during the highlights of last years series or this years live sebring but they had to have a full course yellow after a v.large bundle of tires got shoved onto track by pitlane entrance

PS: Gimpster, the url in your signature is not what I think it should be (hmmm)

The site is in transition from one host to another so is off line. Not sure when that will be done or if the name will be the same. Blame Maverick for that one. :P

The process is taking longer than anticipated, sorry! I'll get on it as soon as I've moved house.

I've been bothered a bit by the tyres in FE chicanes, seems to me that they're placed in a way that makes the chicane(s) very dangerous, if it would be for real.

Yeah, but in real life people don't try to blast through the chicanes like mad, and if they do they get a penalty for doing so.

Trying to recreate the penalty system where the computer is the judge makes things very complicated. What if a unlucky driver got rearended and shoved through the chicane? Could the computer detect that and not penalise him? Or would the victim get f*cked over twice, not only dirty tyres but a black flag too... In the real world we can easily distinguish between deliberate and unintentional cutting, but not so in the virtual world. Therefore we have the tyrestacks.

Yeah i know, it just bothers me like i said, vs. how dangerous it would be in real life. It also bothers me that you need a good bit of luck getting a good hotlap done, throwing yourself thru the chicane hoping to miss all tyes, but that's something completely different.

i think i heard on tv (commentary during some touring car racing? im not sure) that there was an unpleasant surprise, when someone tried to cut a chicane that was "guarded" by a pile of tyres. well, the unlucky driver did not know that during the break between seasons the inside space of the pile had been filled with... concrete illepall
no more "tyres flying onto track" problem i guess

It is not hard for a computer to make the judgement between intential and unintential cutting of corners. Its accually rather simple and effective. It need to just consider 2 things.

1) Did the car cross over then inside of a corner off the racing surface.
If yes Ask question 2.
If no end.

2) Did the car reduce throttle when that occured.
If yes end.
If no penalise.

You could then further refine the system to chech for the number of occurance per lap/race and warn or penalise accordingly.

So in the end this puts the driver completely in control of wether they become penalised or not, reguardless of whether the cut was intended, forced or simply an accident. All cuts are examined, all are penalised unless the driver reduces throttle/velocity when it occures. It has worked well for other sims and I see no problem with this system. You went off track whether you intended to or not now you have lost the right to the racing line or position battle. Lift, recover and continue or get penalised for cutting. The choice is yours.

Maybe add this :
3) did the driver gain a position after crossing the chicane?
If yes then etc..

I don't think the first suggestion is in need.

Currently when you do hit objects, the upset the car a little yes. You do feel a bit of a twitch with the car, but you hardly ever lose control of the car.

However, Gimpster you say that this is wrong. When you hit a cone or pole, you do feel a thump like that. Just at autocross events, a 40mph hit will ruin your line. Heck, even LFS doesn't simulate the cone or object getting stuck beneath the undercarraige... which sometimes creates sluggish steering. And if you think about the speed you hit these objects in LFS (pretty high), it is perfectly normal that your car could be shaken up by it. The cones in LFS are no litte driver's ed cones, they are the big and heavy construction kind. And for hitting the small and large tire stacks... that should be normal too. Tires are HEAVY, and a set of small tire stacks is enough to upset the car.

LFS simulates the objects being hit just fine I think... otherwise if you didn't want the car to be losing control when you hit the objects, your car would just feel invincible like a tank... and could just plow through stuff without it being affected. It is not like that.

As for the tires being anchored... that would be wierd. Most tire stacks are anchored or tied together against a wall, but not on the track. I've seen many tracks that have the tires in certain areas like our LFS tracks, and sometimes they come onto the track. Happens all the time. Caution flag could come out, and it needs to be cleared. But half the time tracks don't have those tires, so yes, it is best to wait for a proper penalty system, and the tracks will feel much more spacious, and of less harm to the racing.